One should make a tool that rename the amp names in profiles automatically, with the help of a matching list.
This matching list would be maintained by the community (or the community of profile makers)
Users would rename their profiles only locally : nobody can complain.
I like the sound of this.
Let a machine sweat the details. My idea of Spoonerism, Pig Latin or some other pre-arranged formula still involves a whole lotta work for we end users.
From terms and conditions of RE:
a) & b): I seem to remember someone saying that only commercial profiles (i.e. sold) are potentially subject to legal action by the trademark holders. Thus, the free profiles are probably fine to name like the real amp. If so, since Kemper offers the RE service for free, I don't think they have a problem.
Yes, you are right - trademarks can only be misused by companies.
But some names / designs and even fonts are in additional copyright protected.
The general question though has to be if there even IS a legal problem?
You're not selling chinese fake peavy amps with the original logo on it but youre simply selling... well what exactly? Isn't this rather like selling used amps or something in that direction?
waht about reverse it ? So Fender = rednef , Marshall = llahsram , Vox = xov etc.?
I buy commercial profiles and found the naming a challenge. Of course the sound matters, but if you have a few 1000 profiles some standard would be nice.
The general question though has to be if there even IS a legal problem?
This is a good point. Before things get silly you may want to consider that there may not actually be any trademark infringement by simply using a brand name to describe what Amp you actually profiled during the process.
My understanding is that a trademark is an indicator of origin and there is only an infringement if your use of the mark causes a consumer to think that what you are selling is made by the owner of said trademark, or causes confusion that the product may originate from that owner.
In my opinion (and this isn't legal advice) by simply describing the fact that you used say, a Fender Amp to create a profile, doesn't infringe a trademark.
To take an extreme example. If you ask the Edge what he used to make the last U2 record and he lists his gear somewhere - he is probably not going to be done for trademark infringement. He is simply describing the equipment he used.
You guys have effectively created a type of EQ or impulse response using a particular Amp. You are simply describing the amp used to create that. So long as you make it clear that the Amp company name is only to describe the equipment you used to create the profile I don't see how that can cause someone to think that the product (the profile) actually originated from that company.
Now it is all very well me saying this, but in practice it is pretty scary having a big company threaten you legally I am sure. They may have a legal leg to stand on - but they are probably just trying to scare you. They can't be happy about the Kemper as a product after all.
I am based in the UK and I am pretty confident that this isn't trademark infringement over here. But that is my opinion - not legal advice at all. I think it would be wise for any commercial profiler to seek independent legal advice before deciding how to go ahead with a strategy - the law may differ in other countries. There is also some useful stuff available in the public domain. You can check the WIPO site for example.
Btw: why is anyone so careful about the amp names, but not about microphones?
I really think in case of a court case, the amp manufactures have little chances...
Its a big difference selling something - eg music and explaining what kind of gear you have used or to sell something and use the name of the gear.
You would get the same problem when you call your song "Mesa Boogie MK V Song"
Armin - with all due respect I think you are missing the point of the prior posts. The point is that you may not have to go as far as using silly acronyms or pig latin names to describe profiles if you are simply using the name in a sensible manner. You can say the word Marshall or Fender if you are not using it as a trademark. Context is everything.
The example of describing mics or gear to create a record is relevant and applicable. It illustrates that there may be no actual trademark infringement if a trademark is not used as a 'badge of origin' or likely to confuse the consumer into thinking that the product is endorsed by the amp manufacturer.
Your example of calling it Mesa Boogie Mk V song - is probably the same as calling something 'Fender Pack'. This could arguably (in absence of any other explanation) cause confusion that the product originates from the manufacturers. However, if you stated 'A collection of Profiles of Fender Amps Vol 1' and included an explanation that you used Fender Amps to create profiles but the profiles are not endorsed or associated by Fender - I don't see how you are infringing a trademark - you are describing what equipment you used to create an impulse response/EQ curve.
And yes this is not a joke - Andy and I (and maybe others) got some problems.
I talked with some manufatores and they claim currently preparing sone legal actions against profile sellers.
The latest changes on my website seams to be fine for all manufactores.
I don't think anyone thought this was a joke but glad to hear that your changes are acceptable to them. I was just trying to explain that you may be getting bullied for no good reason.
So, this thread is almost one year old but I'm curious to know is this still active thing? 'Cause I still see a lot of commercial sellers posting pictures witl brand names and logos.
Thanks!
People quick to jump on the band wagon based on speculation without actual proof, documentation or any DMCA/Cease and desist or other.
People quick to jump on the band wagon based on speculation without actual proof, documentation or any DMCA/Cease and desist or other.
But It wasn' based on speculation as far as I know.
Pardon my ignorance, but I cannot help but wonder:
It is ok to upload "free" profiles to the Kemper database using brand names such as "Marshall" and "JTM" etc. but you cannot use these when "selling" profiles?
Pardon my ignorance, but I cannot help but wonder:
It is ok to upload "free" profiles to the Kemper database using brand names such as "Marshall" and "JTM" etc. but you cannot use these when "selling" profiles?
Good question.
I THINK it's legal, at least for the person doing the uploading, but I think it is a gray area still. I might be wrong.
Whether Kemper is liable for trademark infringements on their website may be another matter. But as far as I know, there haven't been anything suggesting this is a problem (after all, I guess at least ONE amp manufacturer would have tried a cease and desist).
All the rig packs released by kemper (whether the profiles have been done by Kemper themselves or by commercial sellers) have "alternative" names.
Commercial sellers who upload to rig exchange might also be in a gray zone.
Pardon my ignorance, but I cannot help but wonder:
It is ok to upload "free" profiles to the Kemper database using brand names such as "Marshall" and "JTM" etc. but you cannot use these when "selling" profiles?
Line 6 Modellers come with those alternative names. But you can download a document where they show pictures of the oriignal amps and cabinets and there they use the proper names and brands. BUT: this document is full of legal stuff like trademark and copyright disclaimers and such. 
Pardon my ignorance, but I cannot help but wonder:
It is ok to upload "free" profiles to the Kemper database using brand names such as "Marshall" and "JTM" etc. but you cannot use these when "selling" profiles?
My lawer said that it is forbidden to use copyrighted material in any form... Andy from TAF and Armin should know more about this topic.
All the rig packs released by kemper (whether the profiles have been done by Kemper themselves or by commercial sellers) have "alternative" names.
Commercial sellers who upload to rig exchange might also be in a gray zone.
See? Even Kemper is using alternative names!
Line 6 Modellers come with those alternative names. But you can download a document where they show pictures of the oriignal amps and cabinets and there they use the proper names and brands. BUT: this document is full of legal stuff like trademark and copyright disclaimers and such.
I assume they have permission to use those like Amplitube.
My lawer said that it is forbidden to use copyrighted material in any form... Andy from TAF and Armin should know more about this topic.
Keep in mind that there is a big difference between copyrighted material and trademarked stuff.
Keep in mind that there is a big difference between copyrighted material and trademarked stuff.
Forgot to type trademark. Sorry!
I own a trademark and have won a domain name case because of it. If someone uses a trademark in the brand / naming, they can get sued. If it is used in the description, along with details of who actually owns the trademark, it is fine. I am not a lawyer though.
