Studio Monitors placement

  • Hi Guys,


    Im on the verge of buying myself a pair of studio monitors. Now my room is tiny with about 2.8x4.4 m² with a pitched roof area. my desk is set up infront of the 2.8m wall and in a corner.
    Now my actual question is can I even set up a pair of studio monitors only about 5cm from the wall? I know, that I shouln't go big (in terms of the woofer) and will probably buy something like the Yamaha HS 5.
    Would you guys recomend a back-sided bassport or should it be in the front (like the KRK RP5 RoKit G3) because of the placement.
    Maybe someday I'll buy a sub to get to the lower regions. I mainly want to use it to monitor the STEREO singal of the Kemper. So a Mono Unit wouldn't cut it for me. Also I'm doing some Homeproduction things and a pair of Studio Monitors wouldn't be bad.
    Right now I got my AKG K 271 MK II to do all the things mentioned above.
    Does someone here own a KRK RP5 RoKit G3 or a Yamaha HS5 and has a similar setup/room situation.
    Sry for asking something like this here but I got all different types of answers from the internet so far and I wanted to get some of your opinons on the matter.
    Thanks in advance for all your answers :)

  • Every room is different, not only in terms of dimensions, but also in terms of materials used in the walls, which might be different from wall to wall to ceiling, and even in the same wall, so to speak. So what follows is only conventional "idealized" doctrine - which, of course, is doctrine for a reason.


    Setting up in a corner is not recommended. The listening position should ideally be in the middle between the two side walls, and along the shorter wall (like you already seem to have).


    The monitors generally shouldn't be right up against a wall. 10 inches should be good. Distance from side wall and back (front?) walls should not be the same.


    Your position in the room is also very important. For me, in my previous setup, my position had MUCH more effect than the acoustic treatment I had in there. I moved my position maybe a foot further from the front wall I was facing, helped tremendously.


    I've heard bad things about the RokIts, in terms of hyped lows and highs. But maybe a front ported design would be to your advantage regarding a close wall placement. You'd certainly benefit from a pair of monitors with some "on-board EQ adjustment" options - don't remember if the yammys and the KRKs have that.


    For me, in my limited experience, smaller woofer monitors do not really translate the sound of the amp too well. But that might be "psychosomatic", because they are usually flat to the base frequencies of 6-string guitars (at least they are specced as such).


    If I were you, I'd definitely try to see if I could get a better layout than a corner and very close to the wall. I think that would probably make a bigger difference than the brand of monitor, and whether they are back. or front ported.


    When you get the monitors, use a sine wave generator in your DAW to see where there are frequency problems (peaks, valleys, nulls, phase issues), and see which monitor AND listener positions yield the best compromise. Then refine with some music playing that you know well.


    These recommendations are mainly focused on music production rather than listening to the kemper just for playing. For just the "playing", I would worry less as long as you like what you hear (obviously :-)). But if you're doing recording (let alone mixing), these suggestions are solid :)


    I don't think that room is so tiny for a home setup - that's actually quite decent. Maybe not professional studio grade, but who has access to that anyway - outside of a professional (as in making real money) setting?


    There are differing opinions on the "smaller vs bigger woofers for small rooms". Some people say that bigger woofers => bigger problems. I'm not entirely convinced. Any acoustic issues related to the room are there no matter which monitors you have - provided that the monitors themselves are flat. Smaller monitors have their rapid rolloff of bass frequencies higher than the bigger monitors - but that just means you have no idea at all what is happening at the lower frequencies . Bigger woofers at least gives you something to go by IF YOU KNOW HOW THE ROOM AFFECTS THOSE LOWER FREQUENCIES. In reality, price and real estate might be just as relevant considerations.



    Maybe you can tell use why you are set up in a corner and so close to the wall - maybe even whip up a diagram of the room including furniture, doors and your "suggested" setup for use to look at?


  • Okay maybe I should have mentioned this. This is also the room I have everything else I own... besides from some stuff that's still at my parent's house. This small room is all I got...
    So there also is a Couch, my Bed, and all other pieces of furniture in here.
    I know I can't make a perfect condition for recording in here. But I certainly won't be able to afford anything in terms of roomtreatment. And because I got 5 roommates and certainly have to move out after 3 more years tops (the time of my academic studies) it wouldn't be money good spend.


    If I would move some furniture around I could place the desk on the long side of the room (which I now know is also not recommended). My Bed has to stay under the pitched roof area and the door is on the other short side of the room. So I can't place my desk in an ideal position.


    The main thing I want to do is to get an idea of how the Profiles will sound when turned up loud through a decend PA. I play gigs like once a month and sometimes live the Low-End really is different from what I heard when selecting the Profiles using my Headphones. In our rehearsal-Room we only got Thomann T.Box Monitors which ... mhm how can I put this also kind of suck. So we mostly use IEM in our rehearsals.


    I got quite the limited Budget as you can imagine. And I'm not looking for a perfect set up. I want to ask you more experienced guys out there what you would do if you were in my shooes.
    Cheers!
    And thanks Micheal_dk for the long and thorough answer :)

  • You can easily spend thousands of dollars on monitors alone, and add things like acoustic paneling, whatever. And that will certainly make an improvement. But you sound like you have a similar situation to myself. My guitar amps, guitars, etc. are all in my home office, where I work from every day (yep, that's a bit distracting sometimes). There's almost always a fan going, or this room gets significantly hotter than the rest of the apartment (yep, second floor apartment, shared with my lovely wifey, who also happens to despise any temperature below 78). There's a futon in here for having guests over. There's junk piled everywhere. The place is kind of a mess. Oh, and my desk is in a corner, because it's an L-shaped desk, and there's nowhere else for it to go in here.


    But I make it work for what I like to do, and it works just fine.


    I have a pair of the original RoKit 5's - the squared-off front ones. I can't even find pictures of them online anymore, and I got them as an open-box from Guitar Center many moons ago. They are bass-heavy, but I compensate by turning up the high end. They aren't the greatest monitors I've ever heard, but they do the job for myself at home. I'll probably upgrade soon, but they're working just fine right now.


    I went to Ikea and picked up two sets of shelf mounting brackets (the ones you clip/screw on to the back of a desk and add a shelf on top) and got some small pieces of symmetrical scrap wood, also from there. Cost me about $20, probably less. I painted the wood, mounted them to the shelves, and mounted them on my desk. Now, the speakers are off my desk, with a direct path to my ears. Sounds good enough for me, but I'm also not spending my days mixing and mastering either.


    In the end, do the best you can with your budget and your means. It doesn't have to be perfect - it just has to be good enough for you.

    Guitars: Parker Fly Mojo Flame, Ibanez RG7620 7-string, Legator Ninja 8-string, Fender Strat & Tele, Breedlove Pro C25
    Pedalboard: Templeboards Trio 43, Mission VM-1, Morley Bad Horsie, RJM Mini Effect Gizmo, 6 Degrees FX Sally Drive, Foxpedals The City, Addrock Ol' Yeller, RJM MMGT/22, Mission RJM EP-1, Strymon Timeline + BigSky
    Stack: Furman PL-Plus C, Kemper Rack

  • I'd make sure you go with front ported speakers. It would get rid of one of the big potential problems.
    Other than that, some Auralex "Mo pads" really help with de-coupling from whatever surface you put them on.


    You"ll be fine with a set of Rockets. You're not in the business of mastering classical orchestra's.


    Just make some noise and have fun! ☺



  • Having other stuff in the room can be both a detriment or a benefit, depending on many factors, so that's not necessarily a bad thing :) If possible, stuff should be placed symmetrically, but that doesn't sound like an option here, it seems like :)


    Room treatment can be pretty cheap, but it is an expense you have to prioritise if you want it of course. I made my own, which is the cheapest - and pretty easy. And there's no reason you cant take it with you when you move, provided you don't glue it to the walls :) But if that's not an expense you're willing to make given what you're looking for I understand. Keep in mind that monitoring is a combination of monitors, room and room treatment. And the monitors may not be the biggest part of that equation; so sometimes it makes sense to skimp on the monitors and put the difference toward the treatment. OK, enough with the soap box.


    If you want to go wild, you COULD put some wheels on your table and roll the table in front of the door when doing audio work, but nevermind.


    I would advise you against trusting studio monitors to give you a good impression of how it will sound over a PA. you MIGHT not be better of than with headphones. Just a friendly warning :)


  • I have a pair of the original RoKit 5's - the squared-off front ones. I can't even find pictures of them online anymore, and I got them as an open-box from Guitar Center many moons ago. They are bass-heavy, but I compensate by turning up the high end. They aren't the greatest monitors I've ever heard, but they do the job for myself at home. I'll probably upgrade soon, but they're working just fine right now.


    I have similar small untreated room. I had 5" Tannoys, didn't like. 6 inch Rokits - didn't like. Yammys 8 inch - to big for this room. Then I bought so praised Equators D5. Well, they have wide stereo image or however you call this. Recently I bought Yammys MSP5. Well, Equators now sound boxy, really.


    But


    Recently I made a trip to guitar music store and tried 5 pairs of monitors: Yammies HS8, Presonus Eris 8, Presonus Sceptre 8, Adams F7 and Eves SC 205 (5 inch). Believe me or not, but Eves sounded most huge, bottom was tighteest. Gonna buy them.

  • I've heard nothing but great things about the Eve's. After buying a Kemper, building a rack, buying all new cables, and building a brand new pedalboard with a pricy MIDI controller (RJM MMGT22) in the last 6 months... my wife would simply divorce me if I spent another X amount on speakers! Haha.

    Guitars: Parker Fly Mojo Flame, Ibanez RG7620 7-string, Legator Ninja 8-string, Fender Strat & Tele, Breedlove Pro C25
    Pedalboard: Templeboards Trio 43, Mission VM-1, Morley Bad Horsie, RJM Mini Effect Gizmo, 6 Degrees FX Sally Drive, Foxpedals The City, Addrock Ol' Yeller, RJM MMGT/22, Mission RJM EP-1, Strymon Timeline + BigSky
    Stack: Furman PL-Plus C, Kemper Rack

  • I've heard nothing but great things about the Eve's. After buying a Kemper, building a rack, buying all new cables, and building a brand new pedalboard with a pricy MIDI controller (RJM MMGT22) in the last 6 months... my wife would simply divorce me if I spent another X amount on speakers! Haha.


    I get you man :D If I buy new gear I always kind of like sell anything else for balance :D and things go smoother.


    For the case of Eves - I heard not much about them, but I heard them. While monitoring Kemper, for a moment I lost track which monitors play at the moment (I was switching using 5 buttons on Presonus Monitor Station, in dark room...), there was huge sound in front of me, so I thought... maybe some 8 inches, maybe Adams 7" - well these were this 5" inch puppies.


    GASssss

  • I have some Tannoy Reveal 501A up for sale. They are as new. Monitors are so much subjective in terms of taste, that recommending them is difficult. I personally liked the Tannoys, was my second pair (passive then active) but I went for 8"ers... If someone is interested, feel free to pm me. Otherwise > Bay :)

    Gear: Strats & KPA. Plug Ins: Cubase, NI, iZotope, Slate, XLN, Spectrasonics.
    Music: Song from my former band: vimeo.com/10419626[/media][/media][/media] Something new on the way...

  • First of all thanks for all your answers! :)


    I would advise you against trusting studio monitors to give you a good impression of how it will sound over a PA. you MIGHT not be better of than with headphones. Just a friendly warning


    What would you recommend to buy then?


    I mean with my current Headphones I still get more control over what the audience get's to hear in comparison to my old amp setup. So I'm still very happy with my Kemper and the endless realm of Tones it revealed to me :thumbup:
    Maybe I'll just go to my music store and check out some of the studio monitors they have.
    Or I'll just harass our Audio Engineer to check out every single Profile I'd like to use live with me on his PA :D

  • First of all thanks for all your answers! :)



    What would you recommend to buy then?


    I mean with my current Headphones I still get more control over what the audience get's to hear in comparison to my old amp setup. So I'm still very happy with my Kemper and the endless realm of Tones it revealed to me :thumbup:
    Maybe I'll just go to my music store and check out some of the studio monitors they have.
    Or I'll just harass our Audio Engineer to check out every single Profile I'd like to use live with me on his PA :D


    @Michael_dk is right though. PA speakers are not studio monitors, and they often do color the sound, sometimes for better, sometimes for worse. They are full range, but not flat response. Think of it like this - your Kemper will produce a sound similar to being in a studio, mic'd up. The PA system is going to reproduce it like listening to it on a high fidelity sound system (because that's what it is). The sound you hear on an album is not the same sound the artist or band heard in the studio. Your computer's speakers don't sound like a PA. And a PA doesn't sound like studio monitors.


    That said, it's often close enough. You can always adjust your master EQ to the house if their speakers are too trebly (which is often the case with poor quality or old PA systems) or too bassy (subwoofers are too powerful when compared with the mains, poorly set crossover frequencies, or, heck, no crossovers at all). If you've got a good soundman, you don't even need to worry about that, because they'll know what your sound is, and EQ you appropriately.

    Guitars: Parker Fly Mojo Flame, Ibanez RG7620 7-string, Legator Ninja 8-string, Fender Strat & Tele, Breedlove Pro C25
    Pedalboard: Templeboards Trio 43, Mission VM-1, Morley Bad Horsie, RJM Mini Effect Gizmo, 6 Degrees FX Sally Drive, Foxpedals The City, Addrock Ol' Yeller, RJM MMGT/22, Mission RJM EP-1, Strymon Timeline + BigSky
    Stack: Furman PL-Plus C, Kemper Rack

  • Really, in the end, I'd say you're best off with flat response at home AND the knowledge of how the "usual" PA you play over sounds in relation to that.


    Flat response at home, though, means monitors AND room, as I have written about extensively in my first post :)


    Maybe you could get by with headphones AND knowledge of how the PA sounds in relation to those.


    Otherwise, I'd get reasonably flat monitors, place them where you get the best (flattest) frequency response given your room layout limitations (furniture etc etc) - but in combination with listening position. Maybe your monitors should be in a different location than your desk, and maybe from there the best listening position is sitting on the bed, who knows :) I suggested earlier how you might go about finding the best location for both monitors and listening; that advice still stands no matter what else you do.


    All in all, it will take some trial and error to learn the venue's influence on the sound (and here we're talking both the PA speakers, but also the room, and amount of meat in it (i.e. "people" for the politically correct crowd), as those tend to absorb sound also ;)


    If your listening environment at home can reproduce all frequencies REASONABLY flat (be it monitors or headphones), you should be able to get somewhere with e.g. the monitor out EQ in the output section, as @dougc84 says.