In search of the Holy Grail, Part XIV, Doug Rappoport, Help needed and appreciated

    Part 14 of the series, hello everybody. Pleaze have a look at this video, i am looking for this solo sound. It is not sth spectacular, but still, i cannot for the love of god,
    dial in a tone like that. I nailed the rhythm sound more or less, but this kind of satrianish soft sound i have to confess i do not understand, especially in this case when
    there is not so much of reverb or delay going on. Or is it?
    3 years ago user MillA posted a rig i could use for this with a LOT of delay, but i think there must be another wayand a fresher free profile. Pre-EQ? Post-EQ? I do not know where to start.


    Help appreciated!

    My occupation: showing teenagers the many hidden secrets of the A-minor chord on the guitar.

    There's definitely some reverb or delay on the sound. I would guess, for this style, probably more delay than reverb. Otherwise, here's some ideas:


    1. Obviously he's using a Friedman. Search for a good Friedman profile. It doesn't matter if it's the Phil X model or not, but if you can find one, you'll do better than others. There's a huge thread around here somewhere with hundreds of Friedman BE100 profiles, and a similar with SB50 profiles. That'd be a great place to start.
    2. You can see the knobs on the front of his amp. Since you cannot control the Kemper, EQ wise, just like a real amp (because it's all baked into the profile), they're great suggestions for EQ adjustments you can make.
    3. The guitars he is using all are humbucker-equipped guitars. You won't get the same sound out of a spanky Strat. Additionally, it looks like he favors the bridge pickup. A guitar with a PAF-style humbucker in the bridge will take you a long way.
    4. It doesn't appear like his lead sound has a ton of gain. It's especially noticeable when he plays a little softer - it cleans up really quickly. As guitarists, it's easy to want to crank the gain on a lead sound, but you actually end up just compressing it, losing dynamics, creating noise, and getting further away from the tone you're looking for. Roll it back a touch and you'll be even closer.
    5. Tone lies almost more in the player's hands than the amp you pick. Steve Vai, for instance, sounds like Steve Vai, whether he's plugged into a Fender Bassman or his custom Carvin Legacy. I guarantee you can get this same kind of sound from nearly any Marshall-style amp. When demoing some amp sounds, try playing some of his licks that you're familiar with and you'll get closer to the sound you desire.

    Guitars: Parker Fly Mojo Flame, Ibanez RG7620 7-string, Legator Ninja 8-string, Fender Strat & Tele, Breedlove Pro C25
    Pedalboard: Templeboards Trio 43, Mission VM-1, Morley Bad Horsie, RJM Mini Effect Gizmo, 6 Degrees FX Sally Drive, Foxpedals The City, Addrock Ol' Yeller, RJM MMGT/22, Mission RJM EP-1, Strymon Timeline + BigSky
    Stack: Furman PL-Plus C, Kemper Rack

    Quote from paults

    It sounds to me like it has a wet, distant 1/8th note delay, and a darker than usual chorus or flange (or that may be coming from him playing more doubled guitar parts than are shown in the video).


    thank you. stupid question, the piece is here in 72bpm, where do i adjust the delay time? if not here i will need elsewhere and wanted to ask this for along time. thx

    My occupation: showing teenagers the many hidden secrets of the A-minor chord on the guitar.

    @dougc84


    Thanks for your long answer. I have numerous friedmen and marshs, especially i like the thomas dill pack. and hint 4 seems also important. the others, too.
    will check them asap. to numner 5 a little story i have read in a music mag.
    EVH visited Steve Vai and Steve went to another room to fetch the phone or sth while Eddie pluged in and played a riff or two. After a while Stevie rememberd that
    he made no handy photos or notes of his particular sound and because he was recording he was afraid Eddie changes the knobs and his tone would have been lost.
    Putting the phone down and running back Stevie was anxious the tone he was very proud of would have been lost. when he entered the room he saw that Eddie sounded
    like, well, EVH! but had not changed anything. played a JEM with the same settings of a carvin AND sounded like Eddie!

    My occupation: showing teenagers the many hidden secrets of the A-minor chord on the guitar.

    You can change the delay time in the rig or system menu (don't know exactly at the moment, not in front of my KPA).


    Regarding the Steve/Eddie-story: How could Steve be sure that Eddie didn't change a thing if he didn't know out of memory what he dialed in? And if he knew what he had dialed in, why then take photos or notes before leaving the room? Sorry, but I see this story through the eyes of a policeman... :)

    I could have farted and it would have sounded good! (Brian Johnson)

    Quote from Kempermaniac

    You can change the delay time in the rig or system menu (don't know exactly at the moment, not in front of my KPA).


    Regarding the Steve/Eddie-story: How could Steve be sure that Eddie didn't change a thing if he didn't know out of memory what he dialed in? And if he knew what he had dialed in, why then take photos or notes before leaving the room? Sorry, but I see this story through the eyes of a policeman... :)


    at2, okay mister detective ;) ---i am a bad story steller, even in german, when it comes to english, well, i have to confess: i frigged up the story. so Vai comes running back anxious Eddie changed his settings and cries out loud; wtf, i did not make notes of my settings! (thinking that eddie changed settings on the carvin amp). Eddies reply (sounding like no-one else but himself): Do not worry, Steve, just picked up your JEM and did not change anything. Hope this comes across better.


    at1 now we have opened pandora's box =O , in system menu there is nothing, in rig menu there is ?( wtf a bpm dialed. ??? what for. in the delay settings in can adjust right
    clock and left clock setting, what is going on, i understand less the more i think of it. cheers

    My occupation: showing teenagers the many hidden secrets of the A-minor chord on the guitar.

    The story is much better now... :)


    Regarding delay time: Rig tempo is very important because a rhythmic value like a 1/16 or any value in ms is depending on the tempo. Or see it this way: 16th notes are far more difficult to play at a tempo of 150 than at a tempo of 110 because the notes a far nearer to each other and have to be repeated more quickly. That's why tempo is important... :)

    I could have farted and it would have sounded good! (Brian Johnson)

    I have found "free delay" now where you can adjust the milliseconds. it there any difference in quality to the tap delay?
    now i have to find a delay table, right. 8th note in 72bpm is ...
    am i on the right bus? :)

    My occupation: showing teenagers the many hidden secrets of the A-minor chord on the guitar.

    You are! With the tap delay you can tap in the tempo and this way you can always be in sync with your drummer. With the free delay you can't tap and must rely on the tempo you've dialed in before.


    Got a Smartphone? If yes, get the App "Delay calc" or something similar. But on the web there are also many sources where you can calculate tempo and rhythmic values in ms.

    I could have farted and it would have sounded good! (Brian Johnson)

    You can set the note value of the Delay time using Tap Delay.


    Tap Delay is found by turning the Delay Type knob in the Delay menu. Set the note value for the delay, and you can simply tap the tempo button (or a Remote button, or one connected to the back of the KPA, or a MIDI command).


    BTW - I use the Tap delay for almost all of my delay sounds - it enables a rig to be used with many songs, just by tapping in the tempo of the song.

    Quote from paults

    You can set the note value of the Delay time using Tap Delay.


    Tap Delay is found by turning the Delay Type knob in the Delay menu. Set the note value for the delay, and you can simply tap the tempo button (or a Remote button, or one connected to the back of the KPA, or a MIDI command).


    BTW - I use the Tap delay for almost all of my delay sounds - it enables a rig to be used with many songs, just by tapping in the tempo of the song.


    Now i hear ya talking. :thumbup: Okay, i have adjusted in the rig menu the correct tempo. btw it is 74bpm half time feel. okay. (how can you seriously "tap" EXACTLY
    74bpm, but anyway i got it). So i have also dialed in the Tap Delay which i like also. I have chosen 4th for left clock and now what? different notes here? halfs?
    In "analog" i would choose 417ms. am i right? thx a lot, guys

    My occupation: showing teenagers the many hidden secrets of the A-minor chord on the guitar.

    Quote from paults

    The tone control may be turned down on the guitar used for the solo - if it was not, he set the amplifier controls very differently for that sound than he did for the SG slide guitar.


    the sound controls in the video look indeed strange as if being a joke??? ?(

    My occupation: showing teenagers the many hidden secrets of the A-minor chord on the guitar.

    Your help got me going, and the result is here. All free profiles by Thomas Dill, the new ones in RE. Number 3.


    Delay is good, unfortunately not the playing of the melody of Doug, i always have difficulties to copy someone.
    So it is 4 bars Doug, 4 bars Geraldo, 4 bars Doug and 4 bars Geraldo. cheers



    MUSIC

    My occupation: showing teenagers the many hidden secrets of the A-minor chord on the guitar.

    i am proud of drums and bass, rhythm guitar is okay and phat, but the solo guitar, terrible
    dunno what i do wrong


    but btw, what kind of strange tuning is doug using? the video should be of help, but it is not, at least to me.
    strange kind of Drop Eb or sth?? ?(

    My occupation: showing teenagers the many hidden secrets of the A-minor chord on the guitar.

    Edited once, last by Geraldo7 ().

    Just to make one very important thing clear: 99% is just the player, get 10 different guitar-players with exactly the same set-up and you will hear 10 different sounds.


    The technical aspect of a guitar-tone is overrated, many guitar-players played very different equipment in their career (Larry Carlton, Steve Lukather, Joe Satriani ect.), but it doesn't matter, they always will have "their tone".


    Copying an existing sound will be very difficult if your style of playing, your guitars, plecs, strings, hands, fingers, emotions, skills ect. are different, but that's just normal. ;)

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    first name: Guenter / family name: Haas / www.guenterhaas.de

    Like 1
    Quote from guenterhaas

    Just to make one very important thing clear: 99% is just the player, get 10 different guitar-players with exactly the same set-up and you will hear 10 different sounds.


    The technical aspect of a guitar-tone is overrated, many guitar-players played very different equipment in their career (Larry Carlton, Steve Lukather, Joe Satriani ect.), but it doesn't matter, they always will have "their tone".


    Copying an existing sound will be very difficult if your style of playing, your guitars, plecs, strings, hands, fingers, emotions, skills ect. are different, but that's just normal. ;)


    That puts the pressure out of it, because i do not think like Doug and that makes it difficult, if i think like Gerald i can play much better ...


    thx, Guenther! :thumbup:

    My occupation: showing teenagers the many hidden secrets of the A-minor chord on the guitar.