Had a bit of an output volume challenge last night.

  • Last night I ran into some challenges with my live rig and I could use some advice on how to potentially tackle addressing this for future gigs.


    In a nutshell, my problem was that I was unable to compete with the rest of the band from a volume perspective. Unfortunately despite the fact that there were as many as 9 musicians playing simultaneously I was not provided the opportunity to run my KPA into FOH, so I was relying on stage volume along with the bass and drums; only the vocals, horns, and violin were miked. It was also a very small stage and the performers were practically stacked up like dominoes in order to fit everyone. It was a logistical nightmare.


    My live rig consists of the KPA and the ubiquitous Yamaha DXR-10. As always I ran my KPA monitor out into the DXR-10 line input with the DXR volume set to -12 to -14. After the first few songs I had to bump the KPA monitor volume to about -9.5 dB and the DXR volume to -8. At this point I was at least able to hear myself on stage but from the perspective of what the crowd could hear I was still buried. Not much I could do about that though.


    Most of the night I was using the MBritt Dumble profiles, but once I switched to the Dirty Shirley profiles the tone became extremely woofy. These profiles sounded perfect at rehearsal the week before, but that was at a much lower volume as I wasn't competing with so many musicians (only four of us actually showed up for rehearsal which is why I was unprepared logistically for the gig). It basically sounded like I was pushing the DXR well past its limitations.


    To recap, here were my settings:

    • KPA Monitor Out, -9.5 dB
    • Monitor Out > DXR10 Line Input
    • DXR Settings: Volume -8, D-Coutour Off, HPF 100 Hz


    So I'm kind of hoping to get some perspective from you DXR10 users. Some questions I'm asking myself today:

    • Am I asking too much from the DXR10? I mean, I assumed this thing would be able to get very loud and still stay clean with a variety of profiles.
    • Any suggestions for different settings on both the KPA and DXR10?
    • Maybe I just need to EQ the Dirty Shirley profiles differently, or try profiles that are less pronounced in the low end?
    • Would a second DXR10 be worthwhile or is that just overkill?

    There is a pretty good chance this band will be calling again with more gigs and I want to be ready. Unfortunately there will never be a rehearsal with the whole band where I can spend any length of time dialing in profiles, so I need to make my adjustments based on instinct.

    Husband, Father, Pajama Enthusiast

  • It is neither the DXR10 nor the KPA. To avoid this problem it is essential to adjust the profiles at very high volumes. Human ear hears different frequencies at different levels. The explanation for this phenomenon can be found here: Fletcher Munson curve

    Play it like you mean it.

    Edited 5 times, last by WS ().

  • It is neither the DXR10 nor the KPA. To avoid this problem it is essential to adjust the profiles at very high volumes. Human ear hears different frequencies at different levels. The explanation for this phenomenon can be found here: Fletcher Munson curve


    Thanks for the tip. I'm in no position to adjust my profiles at very high volumes thanks to apartment living. Also this band never rehearses as a complete unit.


    I'm well aware of the FM curve and I'm not sure how it applies here, as my issue was not with perceived volume (i.e. clean rigs vs. overdriven rigs). Maybe I am missing something, perhaps you'd be willing to elaborate.


    My real issue last night was that my live rig (on both clean and overdrive profiles) simply could not generate enough juice to be heard over 8-9 other musicians. Furthermore, at the volume I was playing there were several overdrive/crunch profiles that sounded very woofy and it sounded like my DXR was being pushed to its limits. This surprised me as I thought this monitor was capable of moving a lot more air.


    Ideally I'd rent a studio somewhere and spend hours pushing this thing to its limits and tweaking every profile I use. But without having the band I'm wondering if it is worth the effort.

    Husband, Father, Pajama Enthusiast

  • Here are my settings:
    KPA Monitor Out, -20 dB
    Monitor Out (Treble +1,2, Presence + 0,6) > DXR10 Line Input
    DXR Settings: Volume 0, D-Coutour Off, HPF OFF

    Play it like you mean it.

  • Here are my settings:
    KPA Monitor Out, -20 dB
    Monitor Out (Treble +1,2, Presence + 0,6) > DXR10 Line Input
    DXR Settings: Volume 0, D-Coutour Off, HPF OFF


    Cool, I'll try dropping the KPA monitor out volume and increasing the DXR volume. It's possible I was overloading the DXR input a bit. Thanks!

    Husband, Father, Pajama Enthusiast

  • That was my first thought. It is certainly better to make the DXR at a high volume and to reduce the KPA in order not to overload the input of the amplifier.

    Play it like you mean it.

    Edited once, last by WS ().

  • I guess the above-mentioned point sbout FM is that whatever volume you tweak at (no matter how loud it is), when you turn it further up you'll get abundance of lows and-or highs. This might partly explain the woofiness.


    another thing I'd point out is the cab's position: J Mitchell has explained thst a wedge "can" be an ideal source for one person only, or a restricted group. Was the Yamaha placed that way? So if you heard yourself bad, chances are the others heard you much worse :)


    If you want to optimize the sound diffusion the cab should be placed at ears' height.
    again, not sure this applies to the specific case, but it is something worth mentioning IMO


    HTH :)

  • Thanks for the advice folks. :)


    The DXR was standing behind me facing straight out and pointing at my calves. I was standing practically on top of the thing! There was no way I was going to hear myself and I made peace with that. The only reason I raised my volume was because I was told even the crowd could not hear me. Sounds like I probably should have kept the KPA monitor out volume low and tried raising the DXR volume. Instead I did the opposite and probably pushed the DXR input a bit much.


    Raising the monitor might have been an improvement as far as the crowd perspective goes, but then the monitor would have been pointing directly into my ears, so I would not have been able to increase the volume as I would have torn my own head off. :) Sort of a double edged sword there.


    I think there were a lot of mitigating factors, not the least of which were the terrible stage logistics and lack of sound support for a large band. Even the best tube amp would not have fared well under these conditions.

    Husband, Father, Pajama Enthusiast

  • if the guitar is also playing signature riffs in the songs, and especially if there are solos, you can make yourself louder than you could with a conventional amp.


    Program some rigs that are substantially louder than your rhythm rigs. Or, just program one Solo rig, if you prefer to always use the same sound for solos. Turn up the Rig Volume or Cabinet volume, and save it.

  • Sounds like a difficult situation sonically. First thing I'd have done is put the dxr as a wedge behind me if there was no pole to put it up high as at least then you might have heard it as well as the audience. The other thing is if you think about it from the crowd perspective it sounds like everyone was too loud. Doubt I'd want to be in front of my dxr on full when it still isn't competing with others. Must have been deafening.


    Was there no foh at all? I think the solution for the future would be some foh and having others think of the overall sound rather than falling into the trap of everyone playing louder so they can hear themselves

  • Quote

    Raising the monitor might have been an improvement as far as the crowd perspective goes, but then the monitor would have been pointing directly into my ears, so I would not have been able to increase the volume as I would have torn my own head off. Sort of a double edged sword there.


    but this is exactly the point: people can't properly hear a cab from the ground, and you can't either. A stand would have made the need to raise the volume null.

  • If I've given the impression the band was playing extraordinarily loud, that is not the case. The band was actually playing at a very reasonable volume. That isn't just my opinion - the club actually thanked the band for playing at a sensible level and not chasing customers away.


    It's certainly possible placing my monitor on a stand may have helped. I don't own one, but I expect to hear from these guys again so I may invest in one.


    Thanks again for the tips.

    Husband, Father, Pajama Enthusiast


  • It's certainly possible placing my monitor on a stand may have helped. I don't own one, but I expect to hear from these guys again so I may invest in one.


    yep, it's a matter of not wasting/hiding the frequencies that most help people to focus the guitar sound and "locate" its source.