So you say tone is in the fingers?


    Is this really the "same old debate"? :) I often see people discuss where tone comes from, but they don't often discuss the tiny technical playing details that affect tone. Just like like tweaking the amp block paramaters on your KPA.


    Most of the time I get the impression people think it goes down to DNA - ie what hands you were born with. To me that is just a lousy excuse for people who are not able to break down and analyse what is actually happening. Have any of you seen the great videos by Troy Grady ("Cracking the code" etc)? To me this a great example of how sophisticated techniques can be broken down and analysed - just to show mastering them does not require specific DNA but rather understanding for several different physical mechanisms.

    Edited once, last by KD ().

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    Quote from KD

    Is this really the "same old debate"? :) I often see people discuss where tone comes from, but they don't often discuss the tiny technical playing details that affect tone. Just like like tweaking the amp block paramaters on your KPA.


    Most of the time I get the impression people think it goes down to DNA - ie what hands you were born with. To me that is just a lousy excuse for people who are not able to break down and analyse what is actually happening. Have any of you seen the great videos by Troy Grady ("Cracking the code" etc)? To me this a great example of how sophisticated techniques can be broken down and analysed - just to show mastering them does not require specific DNA but rather understanding for several different physical mechanisms.


    Ok, my post was a bit missleading obviously. I did not relate on your vid at that point. Actually I was hitting the same line as you did there. I said "same old debate" because I feel people often tend to be a bit dogmatic when it comes to "tone/fingers/gear", while it's more the developement as a player that increases the influence of fingers (in relation to gear) on the overall tone. And this is achieved by exactly what you described very comprehensibly in your vid. And I totally agree on the fact, that it takes hard work more than talent to become a good player, at least for the most of us. :) .

    Gear: Strats & KPA. Plug Ins: Cubase, NI, iZotope, Slate, XLN, Spectrasonics.
    Music: Song from my former band: vimeo.com/10419626[/media][/media][/media] Something new on the way...

    Quote from mdeeRocks

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    boy he did get some weight!


    of course nothing to do with tone :)

    "...why being satisfied with an amp, as great as it can be, while you can have them all?" michael mellner


    "Rock in Ecclesia" - new album on iTunes or Google music

    Quote

    Most of the time I get the impression people think it goes down to DNA - ie what hands you were born with. To me that is just a lousy excuse for people who are not able to break down and analyse what is actually happening.


    Yea..the good old "DNA-talent" thing who stops 99% of artists to become what they all can become very easy:Acting,playing,painting "from their soul" being unique aka thuis what most people name "the best"..


    KD
    You are right with all you say.I would just like to add that the tone is ofcourse "in the fingers" but it starts "in the heart & soul".I know this sounds "childish" and stupid in 2015 but it is still the truth.It is not "a myth".Most people who say "this guy is playin´very sloppy" mean the way how good some one can handle fast playing and difficult techniques but for me "sloppy playing" is much more than that.It starts with that most guys dont care about the "details" which in their thinking are vibrato,bendings,phrasing etc,etc..they just want to "show off".Which is normal if you´re 16 but becomes a problem when you want to "get serious" after some time.How can you teach someone that music is all about "details";


    You cant!


    Fact is that every "none-musician" ofcourse do not know about musicians playing guitar.99% of the audience dont care about "vibrato" or the scale you play.And the other 1% are the "music police" ofcourse.. :D But nevertheless most of these 99% can very well understand if some player "sounds good".They "get it" when a guitar player "rocks" or plays "smooth" or "has the blues" playing "his heart out"..the audience is even "very impressed" if some guy plays "very fast" and "very clean/exact".But all this only for one-two songs.Then they get "tired".


    What I want to say is that after so many years playing my guitar(and most of all making music) it is very clear to me that "talent" is indeed NOT in the dna."Talent" is just a question.What question will you ask (ofcourse)..well it is a very simple question:"How much do you love it;".That is all about.


    If you love music,playing your guitar you WILL go deep into analysing,discovering,becoming mad if you dont sound how you want.Even from the first day of playing you will care more about the things you descibe very well in your video.You will work your arse off,you will start at some point to become "unique" because ofcourse at some point you will give a shit about what fancy techniques are out there and "hip right now",you will stop to play for other guitar players and you will even stop to play for the audience.This is the moment you will become your worst critic.You will play first of all "for yourself" and finally you will notice that you have to play "always from your heart & soul" to satisfy yourself.This is a cycle.By this way you will take care more and more for "sounding perfect",your dynamics,vibrato,bending will improve without you will be thinking about it.After all you will become a "slave" to the melody and the groove.If you will have reached this point you will accept that difficult techinques,playing "exact" are nothing else than vehicles to transport your ego..so will will play "less" maybe even changing the kind of music you hear.I have seen this with so many people who started playing "Metal" and after 10-15 years they became jazz/fusion-players.Or guys playing Rock drifting more and more to blues/folk-music.


    So is "the tone in the fingers";Sometimes.At some days we want to play "the blues" but our mind is not in the mood.Maybe it is in the mood to "metal" or to play something "happy"..this is what most artist get wrong imo.Because music does not work this way.Someone mentioned Jeff Beck.He is my all time hero.I read every interview he gave and once he said "when I wake up I just do take a look into my self and how I feel and then try to make this feel music..not the other way".Well,I guess this says all.Making a "feeling" music does include all the work,you need "the best vibrato,dyanamics,bending,phrasing" etc you can get but to get all these you have to work all your life.It never stops.Those who are not able to make "their feel" sound exactly how they want just did not worked enough or have been always "to afraid" to show what is going on in their heart.I have seen this very often.


    So..The tone is in our hearts & souls.Our fingers are just "part of the guitar"..an "instrument" for the instrument.. ;)


    uups..again a rant from me.Sorry.

    @Nikos Well put! I think you explained well what I was trying to say. I guess we could say you explained the importance of details..in details! :D


    But a big ringing YES - most of us are told as kids we can only do the things we have "talent" for. And that's probably the first and worst lie we're exposed to. Ken Robinson explains this much better than I can ( https://www.ted.com/talks/ken_…s_schools_kill_creativity ) .


    If you have a big passion for something and are willing to live with it day and day out, dissect the details and are not be afraid to question old truths (and don't be afraid to re-learn if needed). Then the world will be open to you - and your DNA will have little importance.


    I am happy to see my thesis has support here. Let's not carry on the old bullsh*t lies to future generations - so that our kids can become what they choose to and not what is expected from them.

    Quote from KD

    Ken Robinson explains this much better than I can


    You need not to be too modest :)


    I have your video and your remarks perceived as very inspiring.
    For me, music is a lovely hobby, thanks heaven I never needed it for my livelihoods deny.
    So I could keep my love till I become retired.


    As far as I came in contact with the music-business, I've found that many romantic imaginations does not necessarily meet the reality.


    All the more, I am pleased, if someone comes and gives simple tips on how you can improve the guitar playing.
    The motivation why somebody plays is not treated and does not matter in this context.


    stay tuned Harry



    Very helpful video but @2.29 you got spit on the right side of my monitor.
    4K resolution is fantastic but it has its downsides. :)

    Quote from Zapman

    Hats off to you guys that contributed to this thread. Very good feeling embedded in the words from some great musicians. Very inspirinig!!


    Thanks, music is all about being inspired - and giving and taking :)



    In deed, all that matters is the joy we get from playing our instrument. And it seems to be never ending!


    Quote from Inthrutheout

    Very helpful video but @2.29 you got spit on the right side of my monitor.
    4K resolution is fantastic but it has its downsides. :)


    hehe that must have been something else because the video is in 1080p50 ;) And by the way heavy plosives help vocal phrasing as well. I am just practicing what I am preaching! :D

    Edited once, last by KD ().


    Excellent, I am very proud to be on the Rig Exchange! :D :D


    Please let me know how the rig works out for you guys & girls (though I heard there are none of the later here?!), I will be happy to help in any way I can. Sometimes just a minor tweak is needed to optimise a rig for your guitar.


    I tweaked the profile on my Ibanez RG with DiMarzio Air Norton and Tone Zone pickups.