So you say tone is in the fingers?

  • Anybody tried the rig yet?


    I want to add that I only added a little bit of low cut as post effect. Other than that it's just reverb and delay!




    We sometimes forget what we've learned over the years, and it's useful to be reminded from time to time ...


    Yes indeed - and sometimes it good just to describe the things we already know with words.

  • I agree with the tone is in the fingers, I know a lot of my guitar playing buddys sound the way they do through any guitar and any amp. I know I sound the same also. I read on here where Eddie Van Halen was trying out Steve Vai's guitar gear and Steve Vai though Eddie had changed his settings coz he sounded like Eddie :)


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  • Great vid with a lot of truth about the right way of playing guitar (and making music generally).


    Gladly I grew up with "masters of all classes" like Jimi Hendrix, Jimmy Page, Jeff Beck, Steve Howe, Larry Carlton, David Gilmour ect. Of course it is always important to take an honest look how our playing can be improved. When I already was quite a good player, I realized that my timing has to be improved. I just had the timing of my long-time drummer.... That's when I bought my first drum-machine and rehearsed for one year to improve my timing. Shortly after that I had my first studio-sessions, just a coincidence? I don't think so.... ;)


    Paul Gilbert seems to be a very different musician now. Long ago -when the first guitar-lesson-videos were released- I bought one from Paul Gilbert. In the introduction he played fast runs and scales for about 5 (!) minutes without a tiny break. I already was so exhausted that I never got deeper into it, except learning a few good techniques and scales.


    tylerhb: I think your video is not very representative, everybody is playing fast metal-riffs with a high-gain sound. Take a few guitar-players and let them play the guitar-solo of "Shine On You Crazy Diamond" and you will hear a much bigger difference.

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    first name: Guenter / family name: Haas / www.guenterhaas.de

    Edited 3 times, last by guenterhaas ().

  • Of course it is always important to take an honest look how our playing can be improved. When I already was quite a good player, I realized that my timing has to be improved. I just had the timing of my long-time drummer.... That's when I bought my first drum-machine and rehearsed for one year to improve my timing. Shortly after that I had my first studio-sessions, just a coincidence? I don't think so....

    This is golden advice, although I'd prefer to practice to an eight bar loop of a real drummer or a midi groove played by a real drummer to nail the nuances of a pushing or pulling feel. Back when I played guitar for a living, I was lucky enough to play in a band with one of the best drummers in the uk, if not Europe (the continent, not the band, haha!). That was a real eye-opener (ear opener?) for me and taught me a great deal about timing and being in the groove.
    Unfortunately, when the band broke up, I gave up the guitar for a good few years and concentrated on music production and technology. The past year or so I've really gotten back in to guitar playing as an art form and it's only now that I feel I'm getting anywhere near the level I used to be at, where it was just natural, where I couldn't feel the lag between my brain and my fingers, where there really was a freedom of expression. You can play a zillion notes a minute, but if it's not in time, not in the groove, then it'll just sound like someone running the 100 meters in clogs.
    One day soon I'll be good enough again and I'll post a clip I really am proud of.

  • Back then there was no chance to rehearse with drum-loops, they were not existing yet, I'm talking about 1985/86....
    I bought a Roland TR-808, one of the first drum-machines and back then this was better than just a metronome. When I started with studio-sessions (1987), drum-machines became very hip, just remember all the 80's pop. Very often a guitar-player was hired to "humanize" the recordings. This was the time of the first sequencers, Akai and Emu samplers, using Emagic Notator (later Logic) on a Atari 1040ST (no harddisk !), synchronizing midi via smpte on a tape-machine.


    Since then I always had the luck to work with excellent drummers, of course now it's a different world with plugins like Addictive Drums, all kinds of loops, YouTube, vids ect. ect.

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    first name: Guenter / family name: Haas / www.guenterhaas.de

  • Back then there was no chance to rehearse with drum-loops, they were not existing yet, I'm talking about 1985/86....
    I bought a Roland TR-808, one of the first drum-machines and back then this was better than just a metronome. When I started with studio-sessions (1987), drum-machines became very hip, just remember all the 80's pop. Very often a guitar-player was hired to "humanize" the recordings. This was the time of the first sequencers, Akai and Emu samplers, using Emagic Notator (later Logic) on a Atari 1040ST (no harddisk !), synchronizing midi via smpte on a tape-machine.


    Since then I always had the luck to work with excellent drummers, of course now it's a different world with plugins like Addictive Drums, all kinds of loops, YouTube, vids ect. ect.

    No doubt, dude!
    I just wrote my little bit of advice because it's now possible :)
    Man, I actually feel sorry for kids learning today. Everything is so easily accessible that many skip the groundwork and jump straight to shredding

  • This is a great threat with good advice! I'm playing guitar now for more than 30 years and most of the time I thought that there's a lot of BS behind the sentence "The tone is in the fingers". But since a few years I think different. If you play good and accurate you can play almost what you want with nearly every sound you've dialed in, it will always sound good. Unfortunately the moments, when I play good and accurate and feel satisfied with my playing, are still very rare. Thinking about that I found out that tone is not only in the fingers but also depends strongly on your mood. You play like you feel. After 8 hours of work it's hard to get in the right mood for playing guitar and it's even harder to "dive in", to get some kind of flow. Everything will sound like shit to you if you're not able to only think about playing guitar. The killer sound you've dialed in yesterday will suddenly sound like WTF and playing guitar will likely lead to frustration than to satisfaction. Therefore nowadays the hardest part for me is to get in the right mood, to dive in, to achieve some kind of flow. This is why I say: First tone has to be in your head, in your heart, in your soul (or whatever you like to call it). If it's there it will find it's way in your fingers.

    I could have farted and it would have sounded good! (Brian Johnson)

  • Kempermaniac: a very complex subject, indeed.


    For me playing guitar and producing/composing music is something similar to meditation, my current mood actually doesn't matter much. As soon as I start to make music, I'm "travelling to another planet", there's something spiritual behind it. My brain stops thinking all the time and I'm diving into something different, really hard to describe. Anyway, for me making music/playing guitar is an essential part of my life and it's always very refreshing. The rest (becoming a professional musician with studio-sessions, tours ect.) just happened, the basics always are the pureness of making music. I hope this doesn't sound too esoteric.... :saint:

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    first name: Guenter / family name: Haas / www.guenterhaas.de

  • I'm the same. It doesn't matter what kind of day I've had or what mood I'm in, as soon as I sit down at the keyboard & computer or the guitar, it all just fades away and I really do get lost in music, haha! Drives my wife nuts if I'm supposed to be doing chores...

  • I'm the same. It doesn't matter what kind of day I've had or what mood I'm in, as soon as I sit down at the keyboard & computer or the guitar, it all just fades away and I really do get lost in music, haha! Drives my wife nuts if I'm supposed to be doing chores...


    Same here. I think the guitar (or an other instrument) is a very personally thing. You have to be concentrated when you play and you enjoy the results because the guitar gives you a direct feedback of success (good sound, good shop, good melody). You are directely connected to this piece of wood, feel it and hear it, this is the point you forgett everything around you and you dont have to talk, just play and enjoy.

  • You lucky bastards! :)
    I wish I could get lost in playing like you. These moments are too rare for me. To me it's no esoteric theme, it's a real thing, though hard to describe in words. Thinking about it again I should have been more precise: I'm very often in the mood for playing guitar but how I play and how it sounds depends on my ability to switch off my head and my thinking. There always seems to be something that bothers me when I can't get lost in playing. The highs, the lows, my fingers, a string that feels too loose, the list goes on and on (in german we call it "verkopft"). Back in my teenage days when I started playing guitar my playing was like shit, but the feeling was totally different. I was more satisfied, more creative, more into just playing. It was like me, music and nothing else. There was always something to wonder about in a postive way. I somehow lost this ability over the years but I really want it back. This leads me to another question: When you start playing guitar on any given day, how long do you warm up/play until you feel satisfied with your playing? Looking at the last three posts I assume: very quick. I can play for two hours and I'm still thinking it sounds like shit.

    I could have farted and it would have sounded good! (Brian Johnson)

  • You lucky bastards! :)
    I wish I could get lost in playing like you. These moments are too rare for me. To me it's no esoteric theme, it's a real thing, though hard to describe in words. Thinking about it again I should have been more precise: I'm very often in the mood for playing guitar but how I play and how it sounds depends on my ability to switch off my head and my thinking. There always seems to be something that bothers me when I can't get lost in playing. The highs, the lows, my fingers, a string that feels too loose, the list goes on and on (in german we call it "verkopft"). Back in my teenage days when I started playing guitar my playing was like shit, but the feeling was totally different. I was more satisfied, more creative, more into just playing. It was like me, music and nothing else. There was always something to wonder about in a postive way. I somehow lost this ability over the years but I really want it back. This leads me to another question: When you start playing guitar on any given day, how long do you warm up/play until you feel satisfied with your playing? Looking at the last three posts I assume: very quick. I can play for two hours and I'm still thinking it sounds like shit.


    Its not a question of warming up. Sometimes i am satisfied with my playing and sometimes not.
    Especially when i listen to awesome guitarplayers and i really know that i never play as good as them i am not so satisfied. But when i learn a new lick and it works its a very good feel.
    Sometimes its also frustating.
    I can tell you, the first time i heard a sweep player, i could not believe that is is possible to play like this.
    It takes month and countless hours for me to play
    sweep licks. I was so angry that i didnt get it after two days off learning, but the moment
    when it works the first time for me i will never forget. btw, this moment arrives after nearly 6 month of training.
    So sometimes i am satisfied with my playing and sometimes i think i am a worst guitar player.
    But i am very satisfied when i check out a new profile and when the sound is awesome, than i cant stop playing, its pure fun for me.
    For this point i like to thank guido and bert and also sinmix for the great profile releases, they made my day.


    cheers
    Frank


    and..........

  • Back in my teenage days when I started playing guitar my playing was like shit, but the feeling was totally different............ I somehow lost this ability over the years but I really want it back.


    I can sympathize with you.
    As a teenager, with 2-3 chord songs I felt being like Keith Richard and has never doubted on me.
    Than I wanted to be better practiced like mad. The better I got, the more I realized that to be a real good player much was missing. And I practiced more.
    I reached a skill level with which I could make quite good music, but I lost to enjoy.
    Then I had to stop public playing for professional reasons 20 years. I had to work a lot abroad.
    Now I'm retired. I do not have the level that I had earlier. But I am happy that I can play again and I am more generous to myself.
    When I practice today, then I dont have any longer the goal to become much better, but rejoice in what I can and the new songs that I learn. (Most are this old songs that I could not play in public in the earlier days)
    It may be that the age makes more satisfied because the ambition is less.


    I think ambitions are a reason to work harder but they do not necessarily satisfied.


    But then there are those, unfortunately rather rare moments with an audience that almost blow your mind, that bring you into spheres you never would reach without these drudgery.
    And it is not always happened when you think you play at your highest level.
    It can not be explained someone who has not experienced himself.


    Harry

  • Very interesting thoughts & approaches from you guys, here are mines.


    I really suck for covers, it's much more easy to create from scracth for me. I'm a very moody guitarist, I have to get in the right mood to be productive and satisfied with my play, . If I don't feel it I prefer working on a previous mix. All kind of moods will lead to lots of differents results, this is the cool part ... I need to let the steam out sometimes (that leads to hi gain stuff , hard rock, metal riffs, punk rock...) and sometimes melancolic ( ballads, aerial stuff, ambiance stuff...) , I'll often feel much better after recording and all notion of time gets pointless at this stage ( the flow !). Sometimes, I don't even feel playing my guitars, I'll just let the ladies in the closet lol. I often remember a very old quote from a bluesman : 'when I'm not into playing my instrument, I'll stare at it and imagine what could come out of it in my head all day long, I'll then play this on the next day'.


    I've developed a personal & pretty productive work-flow , that I'd like to share with you :


    I have to find a minimal motivation & will before grabbing a guitar, and I will always start to record after 5 min of warming noodles , I then tune my guitar once the strings are warm enough, and dial a cool inspiring drum track. I will always start from the drums whatever I play, I cannot really start from scratch , I need a good groove from the drums. I've got this cool 'guitar tap' option on my DAW that let you setup the BPM while you're strumming at you own pace on 4 bars, it's really great since I ask the computer to adapt to my own personal pace and not the contrary. An electronic drummer at your disposal 24/24 and that will not ask for beers or meeting your sisters is a blessing ;)


    Once BPM is set 'naturally' and groove is on , I's say the ideas come easily and stick really well together once I lay down 2 guitar tracks, a basic harmony. I'll then record a bassline (with an octaver FX, no need to unplug) , and some background guitar fills & other arrangements ( synths or pads). I then move to another part , verse, bridge, solo ... After a while I'll listen to this minimalistic track and either keep it or throw it, and move to another track if I'm not satisfied ( I throw about one third of my tracks). I will always record most takes on the first session (1 hour) and most tracks are naturally double tracked (this forces me to play in time and gives me good discipline) . I then do a quick pan and keep the mix for the next day. Mix is less and less necessary now, since with experience, I've put the comp or EQ mods directly in my rigs (slots A and B = bass cuts and treble enhancements), and this saves lots of time. Same story for the FXs , I mostly use the ones from the KPA and not my DAW's ones.


    I have fount that using a capo (which I used to hate) is a great way to get out the compulsive guitarist habits ( playing in A or E, penta licks ...) and forces me to play out of the box. In case of total lack of inspiration, I'll dial the fantastic harmonizer from the KPA and work on 3 notes jazz chords / progressions , this is an highly creative tool. I often play with my monotron as well (plugged to the KPA), same harmonizer trick for rich pads that will fill a later song.


    All this practices are my daily workout after my daily job. I record on a daily basis and play with real people from time to time, witch is really moving me ahead better than playing along a computer. On the other side playing solo is far more productive, since you always adapt well to yourself ;) and work at your own pace, and only when you're motivated enough. But this is limitative in some way, I really got to push myself playing with real people and get out of the comfort zone to move further.

  • This is a great thread guys. From a guy that's just started guitar about a year ago and plays like shit, I really enjoy reading these thoughts and experiences from seasoned guitar players. Thanks!!

  • Of course everybody is on another level of playing and every person is different, too, we shouldn't forget that. I'm playing guitar for 45 years now (started with 8), so my guitars became another part of my body. I don't rehearse, I'm just playing and I don't have to think about technical skills, scales, harmonies ect. anymore. Maybe that's one of the reasons I'm going somewhere else when I pick up a guitar or I'm composing and arranging songs. It's similar to my girlfriend, who is a very talented painter, while painting she can get lost -in a positive way-, too.

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    first name: Guenter / family name: Haas / www.guenterhaas.de

  • Quote

    Back in my teenage days when I started playing guitar my playing was like shit, but the feeling was totally different. I was more satisfied, more creative, more into just playing.


    Dont like to sound like a smartass but ofcouse I will..so let me say I am sorry "in advance".. :D


    What you are saying is what I have seen so many times with good guys working all day very hard and afterwards they are somekind of "to tired" to get themself lost in the beauty of music (and arts in general)..rocknroll is (if we like it or not) a music of all kinds of energy & rebellion..something every human being will start to loose more or less "after his 30s".


    I have this problem if I play "old style rock music" I have played for many,many years "in my youth".The "limits" of this music are very hard to get by.Pentatonic here,major/minor there.If you know Jeff Beck or Eric Johnson you will also get an idea of mixolydian or lydian etc but thats it.I would like to recommend "new ways" you are used to to hear music.And NOT the way you play.At least not in the first stage.I know a lot of "rockers" hear more or less the same stuff.All day long.All their life.ACDC in the morning.Iron Maiden in the afternnoon,Stevie Ray while driving car and playing their own style of good ol´ rocknroll with their band..


    This has "killed me" in the past and I got a "new life" when I start to hear all kinds of ethno-music.New grooves,new ways of handling scales,melodies,phrasing and improvisation.I like the fact that with many kinds of music (india,balkans,afrika etc) these guys play for example 9/8 or 11/8 all the time but if they notice that you are counting while you play these beats they will wonder...they just have learned it from their childhood.They have it in their blood and they never get tired to play.Meanwhile most of us here in europe,US etc are so used to so few scales in the 4/4 beat that we just got "tired" and lost things (new expiriences) we had in our youth "by nature".Many musicians I know had their own way to get this "new life".Many discovered jazz,classical music etc.I know a lot of guys who got their "new life" discovering Frank Zappa.. ;)


    I dont know about you my friend but maybe...maybe it is time for you to discover "new paths";I dont know.Just an idea.Let me know.


    greetings

  • Awesome ideas and thoughts, guys! Thanks for the input, much appreciated!


    @ Nikos: You're right with discovering new paths, I really should do this. But if you're assuming I'm hearing the same music of my teenage days on an on you're wrong. In fact I almost quit hearing music years ago (that's maybe part of the problem). When I come across music by chance (e.g. via this forum or by searching for something in YouTube) I listen but not very long. If I'm not playing guitar I'm more of a silence-fanboy. :)

    I could have farted and it would have sounded good! (Brian Johnson)

  • Of course everybody is on another level of playing and every person is different, too, we shouldn't forget that. I'm playing guitar for 45 years now (started with 8), so my guitars became another part of my body. I don't rehearse, I'm just playing and I don't have to think about technical skills, scales, harmonies ect. anymore. Maybe that's one of the reasons I'm going somewhere else when I pick up a guitar or I'm composing and arranging songs. It's similar to my girlfriend, who is a very talented painter, while painting she can get lost -in a positive way-, too.



    No rehearse! I think you are on the same level as guido and bert and you are a lucky guy who can play nearly all styles. Like your tunes!
    I started playing in 1992 , two years with a teacher. After that i join a mainstream band up to 1999.
    Than i changed my main job and i totaly stopped playing and i sold all my gear (stupid).
    I havent played from 2000 to 2011. Than i bought a used guitar and a pod and the story goes......
    Saw a kpa , bought it and since i have the kpa, so much fun (and gear) comes up......
    I practice nearly every day but i am still a hobbyplayer.


    Cheers
    Frank


    and...........

  • I don't rehearse,


    Yehudi Menuhin should have said once:
    One day not practiced is only noticed by yourself.
    Three days not practiced is noticed by your friends or colleagues.
    One week not practiced is noticed by the whole world.


    I think for the majority the truth will lie somewhere in the middle.


    cheers - Harry