So you say tone is in the fingers?

  • Proof:

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    but of course! I'll be brutal, but who denies that has never tried having a personal tone in his hands. the day he will try that experience he'll know what we are talking about...

    "...why being satisfied with an amp, as great as it can be, while you can have them all?" michael mellner


    "Rock in Ecclesia" - new album on iTunes or Google music

    Edited once, last by michaelmellner ().

  • Yehudi Menuhin should have said once:
    One day not practiced is only noticed by yourself.
    Three days not practiced is noticed by your friends or colleagues.
    One week not practiced is noticed by the whole world.


    I think for the majority the truth will lie somewhere in the middle.


    cheers - Harry


    Don't get me wrong, I'm playing guitar all the time, but now I'm much more into playing, improvising, composing and producing. Of course especially in the beginning of learning an instrument rehearsing is essential. I rehearsed like a maniac when I heard something (like Jimi Hendrix) I urgently wanted to play. I remember that I rehearsed for 6 months (!) until I could play "Mood For A Day" from Steve Howe (Yes). Later on you will develop your own taste and style, you will start to sort out and find your own way. I learned most when I played with other musicians, I had my first trio when I was 14 and we started to improvise endlessly. Listening to other musicians is essential, too. Nowadays guitarists often are practising alone in front of their computer and they miss the precious interaction between excellent musicians. Of course I'm still learning a lot, gladly music is such an endless field and there's always something to discover.


    There's also a difference between classical players and f.e. jazz- and rock-musicians. Most classical players can't play if you'd take away their notes and many of them cannot compose or improvise. They will play written music from other people their whole life. When I studied classical guitar my teacher at the conservatory (a great classical guitarist) couldn't play a note without his notes. For him improvising and "free" playing was an admirable myth.


    So, please no misunderstanding and no comparisons between peaches and apples. ;)

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    first name: Guenter / family name: Haas / www.guenterhaas.de

  • There always seems to be something that bothers me when I can't get lost in playing.


    I feel every word you say here and in your other post, especially the thing about silence. This is exactly what happened to me and I want to share my thoughts on that, too.


    I had three very promising bands in my life, two even not that far from entering pro level. All bands were founded from scratch, and we all know how difficult it can be to start a band you really enjoy playing in. With the right musicians at your side, it feels like a family. This was what I had, and what I lost. Not that long ago. When this last band split up, something changed. I did not see the sense in writing songs anymore. Though I still was drawn to playing guitar mentally, I could not activate my inner "guitar mode".


    Before this, my whole life was about playing guitar, it was the center of my universe. I was breathing it, even missing it when on the road. While this has never really changed, I ended up not picking it up anymore. I looked at it. Like in the quote of the bluesman (from Sharry’s post I think?), I stared at it and wondered what I would play next time I grab it for a go. Maybe this was a time in my life when I was simply down. Band split up, long relationship ended, no money and eventually no guitar motivation. Even worse: I had to finally focus on a real life instead of making some kind of living out of it.


    So I made a cut. Finished my study, got me a rather good job and now that money wasn't an issue anymore, I started to buy guitar gear more and more. It fell into buying frenzy (that correct English?). But nothing could really please me, nothing kept me playing at all. I was bored by my ever returning runs. And I didn’t hear a lot of music anymore. Even my favorite bands started boring me. Yes, I went for silence instead. (Which by the way is a beautiful sound.)


    I think what happened next, is exactly what Kris described so well above. Without noticing at first, my music taste had changed. Developed I guess. Parallel to my very personal circumstances. I think I can retrospectively recall the moment of the initial ignition: It was when I first heard Tom Quayle. And when I realized that my legato technique – which I was proud of being fluently – was so far from what is obviously possible. I started doing more research on Tom, bought his lessons and also discovered the fantastic site https://jamtrackcentral.com/ . They have some of the best guitarists like Markus Miller and Alex Hutchings with great lessons to buy. These guys took all what is great about players like Vai, Kotzen and the likes, and put it into a fusion context. To me this was all new, and when I started getting into it, I suddenly felt the magic again. And it is just like Kris said, and in the end it is simple and we all know it: Discovering something new, something that places new aims to be achieved, something that brings back motivation. That keeps you going. Just like in real life. So I sold all my gear, got me the KPA to end buying and selling gear, and now I finally feel able to practice (again) with all the joy the instrument should evoke in the player.


    So thx KD for the thread and making space for so many good and interesting perspectives. I really enjoy reading everyone’s thoughts here.

    Gear: Strats & KPA. Plug Ins: Cubase, NI, iZotope, Slate, XLN, Spectrasonics.
    Music: Song from my former band: vimeo.com/10419626[/media][/media][/media] Something new on the way...

  • So, please no misunderstanding and no comparisons between peaches and apples.


    If it's your way, so it is your way. I will not judge this. The quoting helped me to focus on the subject.
    I wanted to point out, that it should not be misunderstood as Instruction.


    Yehudi Menuhin, one of the greatest violinists of the last century fought until his late death to find the right tone. In this context, he should have said this saying.
    There are many well-known guitarist in the "peach class" they stress that daily practice is important for them.
    They recommend warm-ups of 15-30 minutes with etudes and finger exercises at the minimum.
    I would name this rehearsal or practising. (what ever is the right translation for "üben")


    In one topic 100% we are in agreement. To become a good musician, you have to play with others.
    Music is among other communication. Primarily with the musicians you play with in the second place with the audience (and in the best case, not with professional critics)
    It's open the mind.


    However, this requires tools and you only get it by practicing.
    Especially when new impressions or experiences are to be processed that have arisen during session with other musicians.
    I guess that makes sense for each fruit. ;)


    stay as you like to be - Harry

    Edited once, last by Sharry ().

  • There's also a difference between classical players and f.e. jazz- and rock-musicians. Most classical players can't play if you'd take away their notes and many of them cannot compose or improvise.


    If you quote classical musicians that they can not play without sheet music, so that's not to generalize. I know many who can think outside the box and on the highest level.
    However, they are taking a risk, because it is not very much appreciated in these circles (rather stupidly, in my opinion).
    It is really true, however, that classical education and this business these skills more prevents than promote.


    I see some change in the traditional educational system.
    There are not more so much frustrated musicians which didn't get a job in the music business.
    At least in my environment there are dedicated teachers who let improvise, show the children hits and want to convey more the joy of music.
    (Almost half of our big band are music teacher)
    But also they complain that there are more hostility from colleagues as support.
    But at least it seems to come to a paradigm shift.


    Never destroid by a teacher ;) - Harry

  • harry: I'm working regularly with classical musicians, on many tours I hired string-players (excellent musicians) and only a few of them could play without notes. So that's just my experience as a musical director and guitar-player.


    Of course it's important that the classical world will come to a paradigm shift and gladly many young musicians are changing that right now.

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    first name: Guenter / family name: Haas / www.guenterhaas.de

  • Of course it's important that the classical world will come to a paradigm shift and gladly many young musicians are changing that right now.


    Yes, a paradigm shift is really necessary. I fear that it will take time at least still one generation of musicians.


    keep rockin' - Harry

  • Kempermaniac: a very complex subject, indeed.


    For me playing guitar and producing/composing music is something similar to meditation, my current mood actually doesn't matter much. As soon as I start to make music, I'm "travelling to another planet", there's something spiritual behind it. My brain stops thinking all the time and I'm diving into something different, really hard to describe. Anyway, for me making music/playing guitar is an essential part of my life and it's always very refreshing. The rest (becoming a professional musician with studio-sessions, tours ect.) just happened, the basics always are the pureness of making music. I hope this doesn't sound too esoteric.... :saint:


    This is EXACTLY how I feel about it. It comes naturally, to me at least.
    What I have to actively fight for (having a very sophisticated day job) is giving music time and room in my life it deserves (in addition to post here on this forum. ;) )

  • What I have to actively fight for (having a very sophisticated day job) is giving music time and room in my life it deserves (in addition to post here on this forum. )


    Ingolf, I think you do just fine giving room in your life to post on this forum!! lol. How many thousands are you up to??


    Not sure about your playing time, that's hard for me to squeeze in also. Besides my demanding day job, I'm preparing for our annual charity musical variety show in which I chart all our 29 songs, besides learning to play them of course. I'm doing all piano in this, so my guitar creativity is really on hold. There are all these really great new profiles I've barely scratched the surface of (Guido, Bert) and it's eating me up!!

    Gary ô¿ô

  • Ingolf, I think you do just fine giving room in your life to post on this forum!! lol. How many thousands are you up to??


    Not sure about your playing time, that's hard for me to squeeze in also. Besides my demanding day job, I'm preparing for our annual charity musical variety show in which I chart all our 29 songs, besides learning to play them of course. I'm doing all piano in this, so my guitar creativity is really on hold. There are all these really great new profiles I've barely scratched the surface of (Guido, Bert) and it's eating me up!!


    Hey Gary, I'm not going for forum post counts. It's only: when I'm enthusiastic I'm enthusiastic.
    ;)
    Of course I always try to ramp up my playing time all the time, but as I have the privilege to play and rehearse in a constant regular band setting and see myself also challenged with singing, writing music, and recording music I can say that it is a very fulfilling occupation for me, and it helps me immensely to come to my inner self (without wanting to get too esoteric here).
    Merry X-Mas to everyone. :)

  • Kris, thanks so much for your spot on video! Your playing, your advice are all exceptional and you're just a natural at teaching and speaking. Your YouTube vid is a scream, too - funny and wise guy you are. I'm sure many of us will be reminded why all the great points you tackle are so important to being a good, expressive guitarist. Very well done!

    Gary ô¿ô

  • I agree with Guenter that the experience of playing goes beyond the intellectual and bleeds into the spiritual. Of course, those who believe only in the physical universe and experience of life will surely disagree, but this is how I see it.


    I also agree with Guenter's observation of classical players in general. My mum was a prodigy in her youth, and has taught classical piano for over 50 years. She is completely lost if one removes her sheets, unless of course she plays a piece from memory. I've tried over the years to encourage her to use her awesome talent to at least attempt composition, but it's as if the word itself scares her; she won't go near it to the extent that she's not, to my knowledge at least, even attempted to strike that first "undocumented" note.


    It reminds me of much of the "brainwashing" I've seen in higher-education - many fields discourage the questioning of foundational assumptions and beliefs, as if they're sacred somehow, a practice that appears (well, it does!) to result in a steady stream of "lackey" graduates who're good for not much other than the regurgitation of what they've been fed... over, and over again.

  • The killer sound you've dialed in yesterday will suddenly sound like WTF and playing guitar will likely lead to frustration than to satisfaction. Therefore nowadays the hardest part for me is to get in the right mood, to dive in, to achieve some kind of flow. This is why I say: First tone has to be in your head, in your heart, in your soul (or whatever you like to call it). If it's there it will find it's way in your fingers.


    This is def me! Because of time constraints and pressure to deliver - I need a very clear vision of what I want to go for sound-, playing- and production wise. This does not mean i can not be creative and think outside the box (hopefully), but I need a clear starting point. It is very rare that I grab the guitar and just play - though I certainly can get lost in my playing after I have defined the 'goal-of-the-day'.


    So in other words I am not a part of this club, though it does remind if of when I started out on the instrument:


    Kempermaniac: a very complex subject, indeed.


    For me playing guitar and producing/composing music is something similar to meditation, my current mood actually doesn't matter much. As soon as I start to make music, I'm "travelling to another planet", there's something spiritual behind it. My brain stops thinking all the time and I'm diving into something different, really hard to describe. Anyway, for me making music/playing guitar is an essential part of my life and it's always very refreshing. The rest (becoming a professional musician with studio-sessions, tours ect.) just happened, the basics always are the pureness of making music. I hope this doesn't sound too esoteric.... :saint:

    Edited once, last by KD ().

  • This is a great thread guys. From a guy that's just started guitar about a year ago and plays like shit, I really enjoy reading these thoughts and experiences from seasoned guitar players. Thanks!!


    We have all been there. Please also bare in mind that dealing with the "I sound like shit" feeling is part of being a professional. You have turn it into positive energy to fuel new creative force, and don't let it put you down (at least not for long periods).



    This has "killed me" in the past and I got a "new life" when I start to hear all kinds of ethno-music.New grooves,new ways of handling scales,melodies,phrasing and improvisation.I like the fact that with many kinds of music (india,balkans,afrika etc) these guys play for example 9/8 or 11/8 all the time but if they notice that you are counting while you play these beats they will wonder...they just have learned it from their childhood.They have it in their blood and they never get tired to play.Meanwhile most of us here in europe,US etc are so used to so few scales in the 4/4 beat that we just got "tired" and lost things (new expiriences) we had in our youth "by nature".Many musicians I know had their own way to get this "new life".Many discovered jazz,classical music etc.I know a lot of guys who got their "new life" discovering Frank Zappa.. ;)


    I dont know about you my friend but maybe...maybe it is time for you to discover "new paths";I dont know.Just an idea.Let me know.


    greetings


    Yes this is absolutely essential to me - very good stuff! I achieve progress by brutally throwing myself into new styles. One day I will do this kind of backing, next day a fast neoclassical shred backing, and then next day a Russian polka. You have to accept that you will never be satisfied with what you're doing, I don't think it's possible to tackle completely new styles every day and sound good - but for progress it is immensely beneficial. It is simply incomparable to tweaking that 16th note metronome exercise once per week.



    I also agree with Guenter's observation of classical players in general. My mum was a prodigy in her youth, and has taught classical piano for over 50 years. She is completely lost if one removes her sheets, unless of course she plays a piece from memory. I've tried over the years to encourage her to use her awesome talent to at least attempt composition, but it's as if the word itself scares her; she won't go near it to the extent that she's not, to my knowledge at least, even attempted to strike that first "undocumented" note.


    It reminds me of much of the "brainwashing" I've seen in higher-education - many fields discourage the questioning of foundational assumptions and beliefs, as if they're sacred somehow, a practice that appears (well, it does!) to result in a steady stream of "lackey" graduates who're good for not much other than the regurgitation of what they've been fed... over, and over again.


    Yes this can be seen everywhere, but it should be treated as absolute blasphemy in art! Unfortunately it is very much present there as well, as with the case with your mum.


    Kris, thanks so much for your spot on video! Your playing, your advice are all exceptional and you're just a natural at teaching and speaking. Your YouTube vid is a scream, too - funny and wise guy you are. I'm sure many of us will be reminded why all the great points you tackle are so important to being a good, expressive guitarist. Very well done!


    Thanks so much everybody for your encouraging words, this will inspire me to do more of this stuff! Also I am still really curious if the rig has been useful to anybody else.


    Merry Christmas - and happy holidays! :D

    Edited 2 times, last by KD ().

  • Very funny how different we are and this makes the world colorful. ;)


    A clear vision, a clear starting point, waiting for a certain mood or any pressure to deliver would kill my creativity totally, especially when I'm composing. Very often I start to play guitar and I will end up composing a new song. For me making music is more like an exciting journey with an undefined end. But there's not THE one and only method, everybody has to find his way. I'm also not into analyzing too much about my playing and music, probably this is important if you're a teacher.


    My musical life is a mixture of many different things, composing and releasing my own music, composing and producing with/for other artists, playing studio-sessions and going on tour as a guitar-player or/and musical director.


    We all are very different persons with very different lives. Some are playing guitar without composing music, some are more on the composing/production-side, some are teachers, some play mainly musicals, top 40, live-shows or tours, some are session-players without playing live, some are working mainly on the technical side (mixing, editing ect.), some are pros, some are not, one may play for just 1 year, another one for 50 years. Everybody has a different background and personality, but we have one thing in common: a nice little green (or white) box. 8)

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    first name: Guenter / family name: Haas / www.guenterhaas.de

    Edited 3 times, last by guenterhaas ().

  • Very funny how different we are and this makes the world colorful. ;)


    A clear vision, a clear starting point, waiting for a certain mood or any pressure to deliver would kill my creativity totally, especially when I'm composing. Very often I start to play guitar and it will end up in composing a new song. For me making music is more like an exciting journey with an undefined end. But there's is not THE one and only method, everybody has to find his way. I'm also not into analyzing too much about my playing and music, probably this is important if you're a teacher.


    For sure! And my methods change as well - it all depends on the result/end product I am going for. If I had the opportunity to focus completely on recording a solo album - then I would probably gravitate towards a different method (perhaps like yours). I think being flexible and adaptive is extremely important in any business - it is much easier to bend your own mind than the rest of the world.

  • Being flexable and open-minded is one of the major rules. Working on a solo-album is very different from playing sessions or being on tour, just one exmaple.

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    first name: Guenter / family name: Haas / www.guenterhaas.de

  • Exactly, Guenter, and for me throwing the ego out of the window (for good!) is critical here. How can I know what a song's asking for if my ego's in the way? It's not about what I want; it's about what the song wants.


    Yes this can be seen everywhere, but it should be treated as absolute blasphemy in art! Unfortunately it is very much present there as well, as with the case with your mum.


    Agreed, KD. It's blasphemy!


    Very funny how different we are and this makes the world colorful. ;)
    Everybody has a different background and personality, but we have one thing in common: a nice little green (or white) box. 8)


    Indeed, Guenter!