Going back to guitar cab

  • well, if I am getting you right i hope this is not going to happen... I want to be free to mix any cab with whichever rig :D


    In regards to this: with a Direct Amp profile dialed up and browse to a specific cab > do I have to merge the two to hear the full effect of a merged profile or is it the same sound that I am hearing by just loading the cabinet when browsing different cabs. Thanks sorry if it is a little OT

  • Oh, sorry. Are you talking about "creating" a merged cab? If a cab is not derived from a "merging" you won't be able to "merge" it anyway?


    :S


    I just tested this and I stand corrected, with the latest firmware you can only merge a cab once, has this changed in one of the latest firmware updates? I seem to remember being able to merge a cab multiple times but maybe I'm crazy :D


    However, to address your reply, you can merge a cab from any studio profile into any DA profile as long as the cab hasn't been merged already. So we are both wrong :)

  • When done correctly, Merged profiles actually sound exactly the same as the studio profile. This is truly a great feature for anyone who uses a real guitar cab, and anyone who wants to choose their profiled amp and the profiled cab separately.


    However, @ckemper , the problem here seems to be the usability of the feature. As you can see in this and other threads, people are struggling to understand when to merge and when not to merge. It is far too easy to make a mistake in the process, which is clearly one of the reasons people think merged sounds worse. That, combined with the fact that there's no way to know whether a given profile is (correctly) merged or not, creates a lot of confusion. Because of all this, we (the users) can't get the most out of this great feature. Please work on the usability with your team.


    -ax

  • When done correctly, Merged profiles actually sound exactly the same as the studio profile. This is truly a great feature for anyone who uses a real guitar cab, and anyone who wants to choose their profiled amp and the profiled cab separately.


    However, @ckemper , the problem here seems to be the usability of the feature. As you can see in this and other threads, people are struggling to understand when to merge and when not to merge. It is far too easy to make a mistake in the process, which is clearly one of the reasons people think merged sounds worse. That, combined with the fact that there's no way to know whether a given profile is (correctly) merged or not, creates a lot of confusion. Because of all this, we (the users) can't get the most out of this great feature. Please work on the usability with your team.


    -ax

    This. The ability to tell merged Profiles from Studio profiles is crucial.

  • When done correctly, Merged profiles actually sound exactly the same as the studio profile. This is truly a great feature for anyone who uses a real guitar cab, and anyone who wants to choose their profiled amp and the profiled cab separately.


    However, @ckemper , the problem here seems to be the usability of the feature. As you can see in this and other threads, people are struggling to understand when to merge and when not to merge. It is far too easy to make a mistake in the process, which is clearly one of the reasons people think merged sounds worse. That, combined with the fact that there's no way to know whether a given profile is (correctly) merged or not, creates a lot of confusion. Because of all this, we (the users) can't get the most out of this great feature. Please work on the usability with your team.


    -ax


    The question "when to merge" can hardy lead to confusion, once you have read the manual and don't rely solely on individual interpretations of that feature.
    Merging is only performed in a profiling session, not when playing the rigs.
    We had no single question back from those who create merged profiles.


    We have future plans to mark Merged Profiles. But not knowing if you play a merged profile or not cannot lead to mistakes or missfunction.
    A feedback would be great, we are always happy to improve things.

  • Hi Chief,
    many thx for the response. If I understand you right, they compare appels with pears, because behind a studio profile and a merged profile is a different process. Imo they can't sound identical.
    Anyway, i am happy that my kpa seems to be ok and there is no magic button that i miss.
    BTW: Any chance to get pure cab in the cab section and storeable per rig?


    If you make your own assumptions about our technical processes, it is hard to avoid confusion :)


    We have plans to make the PureCab per Rig as well.
    However, this feature is mostly requested by users who will not make use of this feature. You might not have a benefit either.
    PureCabinet has the most impact on distorted sounds. Clean sounds do not change significantly.
    Please check again if you hear a difference with your clean sounds.


    Happy new year to all of you!


  • We have future plans to mark Merged Profiles.


    Great, Christoph! Thank you.


    But not knowing if you play a merged profile or not cannot lead to mistakes or missfunction.


    True, and a good point IMHO.



    We have plans to make the PureCab per Rig as well.


    Always great to hear this confirmation!


    Happy new year to all of you!


    To you too, Christoph, and may the KPA continue to grow in status. I love mine more every day.


    It's a bit of a worry, really, especially since I dream about it at night! LOL

  • just for the record.. DI/Merged profiles are great, in fact Ive recently done a entire set based on a live performer, and actually getting more people in the studio here who want then done this way too.
    the thing is.. - creating really good successful merged/DI profiles, is that its a much MUCH Higher hit/miss ration to what studio profiles offer. - for example, we can spent all day getting the perfect sound out of a real 4x12 cab, for big rock tones. - and it sounds amazing. - plug in then a 2x12. or even a 1x12, and its really bad thin, lifeless etc. - and vice versa. - there are a lot of options for the FRFR systems out there, but a whole lot more in the real CAB world too.


    So to do a successful DI/Studio pack of profiles is a complex situation to be in to be marketed as "good"..


    Hope that makes sence.. btu otherwise.. DI/Studio/Merged are awesome!

  • I have also heard this and I don't agree, I have made quite a few merged profiles and they work just fine. I did a test recording back when the test version was released, I used a looper to play back a guitar riff and recorded the studio profile, the merged profile, the DA profile into the guitar cab and the actual amp into the guitar cab and they were all incredibly close, I could hear a very slight difference between them but I couldn't tell which was which. In other words, if I didn't do a test recording I couldn't tell that there was any difference at all.


    I think there are two potential or common problems with making merged profiles, one is that there are a few steps involved and it is easy to make a mistake especially if you are making a bunch of profiles at the same time, I've had to redo a few profiles because I made mistakes. Second is that making DA profiles requires a good quality DI interface, if your interface isn't good quality then the DA profiles won't be accurate.


    I agree with Tim here. The Studio and Merged profiles he did with my Splawn sound SPOT ON to each other.

  • Well damn


    I just bought a Gemini 2 and a/b'd it to my bogner 2x12 os with scumback speakers and was not impressed at all. The gemini sounded thin compared to the bogner/scumbacks and I prefered the bogner on both hi gain, gain and clean profiles. ... regardless of how empower was set...full FRFR, in between and set to cab the gemini sounded small and not as impressive....I could get controlled feedback on the bogner as equally well as the gemini. The gemini is about the same weight, but the bogner has casters which makes it far easier to manipulate.


    The Gemini had more highs naturally, but in the output section while using hte bogner I added some high end and presence and could get the bogner better and better. so if anythign the value of this exercise has been to show me the benefits of using the output eq a little on the bogner..for which I am grateful.


    The guys at Mission were telling me that the power amp on the gemini was far superior to the power amp in my kemper...but I don't see it....by all accounts the Bogner sounded better using the Kemper power section compared to the gemini set up.


    I had the gemini plugged into the mains jack on the back of the kemper, and the bogner plugged into the power jack on the back of the kemper...i used the Kemper's output mains and monitor volume controls to swap back and forth between the two cabs in order to a/b them.


    I feel like returning this thing after 2 days of use and just settling for the Bogner....anyone have some ideas for me to try before I return this as a failed experiment? I imagine there are other approaches and settings y'all know that might make a different....


    But at this point I'm not drinking the Gemini Koolaid and am so glad I bought the powered Kemper and have the Bogner, which I use for hte Kemper and for my Friedman BE100. Feeling like I have the right gear.


    Looking forward to some education here. I've got my armour on here, start slinging the stones! :)

  • I use a cab for most of the meat of the sound and then I garnish it with a stereo PA mix just for me. Thinking about doing the famed wet/dry/wet setup but not sure if I'm ready to start down that path.
    I like mixing in a good amount of the PA sound , it really helps the ears feel the authenticity of what a miced cab is supposed to sound like, reinforcing what is coming out of the actual cab.
    If that makes sense.
    Some day I'd like to get a Bose system and just run a 2x12 in the middle. That or a couple of qsc k series with a 2x12


    Probaly also good to mention that my guitarist just got his marshall jcm2000 back from the shop and is doing 4cm with his soon to be replaced podhd500 so we mix in the room better when we both use cabs perpendicular to each other. As opposed to him running his hd500 direct out of his PA.

  • I have to admit that my best in the room jam sounds have come from running the powered KPA into the 2x12 open back Celestion V30 speakers in my Bogner Shiva cab.


    I miss the stereo post effects like rotary and delays though and prefer the FRFR sound in a band context.