New From Wymondham Norfolk...the journey begins!

  • My view on this is finding the right profile. The way the profile is made, mic placement etc is everything. I've used the same profile for 2 years now every now and then I get a new profile and think yep I'm going to use this live and I test it at soundcheck and it's not as good as my good old trusty JCM800 TAF profile. My main sound i use i hardly had to tweak at all IMO of you have to tweak a profile lots then it's not the right profile to start with

  • I've been experimenting more and it's definitely more the power amp that I'm struggling with. While I think the profiles I have found sound great at lower volumes, amped to gigging levels with the built in amplifier and a cab the KPA does not replicate the feel or sound of a cranked amp, IMO anyway.


    I've been playing around with my amp and found a solution that I think I might run with for now. I'm running the Stomp section of the KPA in to the front of my amp and then running the Effects section in the effects loop of the amp. With the whole Stack section disabled and a Loop in the X slot this seems to work really well with the Stomp effects still present before my amp. My only concern really is whether its just too much faff to take the KPA as well as my amp to gigs, it does save me the bother of programming my pedal board separately and I could just enable the Stack section for rehearsing through headphones so it has some advantages.


    Decisions decisions!

  • @pauljoy and @Niall182, as you speak about your sound changing with volume (for the worse) and your feeling of your amp projecting better, let me ask about your monitoring situation.
    I will say that with inferior sounding FRFR you will never get a satisfactory experience at high volume levels.
    OTOH the Profiler in combination with a decent FRFR (like the Yamaha DXR 10 or the Atomic CLR) will sound absolutely great at any volume (note that the boundaries of the Fletcher- Munson- curve still apply) and actually will project much better than a conventional guitar cab due to the much wieder dispersion of a decent FRFR solution.
    If you choose to use a guitar cab anyway note that the cab will sound like the cab and should be paired with an amp profile sounding great at the volume you intend to use it.


    Reading that you want to use your KPA as a stomp and FX box made me laugh. ;)
    You really should check your systems for weak links first.

  • @pauljoy, I've been using my Kemper & Remote for about a month now. I jumped straight into a series of gigs with it (probably foolishly), with just a few evenings at home to set up my sounds. Mine's a non-powered Kemper and I'm using a Yamaha DXR 10 for FRFR backline, instead of guitar cab.
    I was a little shocked, at first, that the sounds at gig volume were nothing like the ones I dialled in at low volume. A couple of gigs later, with some snatched moments at soundcheck and during gigs to compensate the eq in the Output settings, I have got some clean and overdriven sounds that I'm REALLY pleased with. I've never had such clarity and articulation, and this is at loud drummer volumes. And my fellow band-members are pleased, too, as the sound dispersion from the Yamaha speaker is so much better than the beamy 2x12 guitar cab which I previously used.
    My problem has been with the more aggressive distortion sounds, which I can't get to sound right with FRFR at gig volume. However, when I use a power amp and a guitar cab, I love the sounds I'm getting. In fact, I like them as much as I did with my beloved but un-liftable Mesa Roadster combo. Nevertheless, I intend to persevere with FRFR because I think it has so many advantages over using guitar cab, if I can get it sounding right. Or adjust my ears to get used to it.
    My point is that, to me, it's worth putting the time in to get it working right for you. I was very much a die-hard valve man and I thought long and hard before deciding to take the plunge with the Kemper. I believe that I made the right decision.

  • Thanks for all the tips and suggestions. Horspip yes it's definitely the more beefy sounds that are not working as well, clean sounds are lovely with the KPA. I too am used to a roadster and use the orange channel on a vintage setting most of the time. I got the KPA in to my Mesa Cab sounding really close to the head, but when I cranked them both up the KPA didn't translate in the same way. I don't feel the EQ changes as such, it's more like the sensitivity of the strings and projection of sound doesn't increase as much as the background noise and ambience which is where I think the feedback is becoming an issue.


    Just out of interest, how many of you guys are using the powered version of the Kemper vs separate power amps?

  • I've a theory on this issue, Paul, but be warned that it only just occurred to me and hasn't been thought through properly:


    When you turn your FRFR power amp up, it's not the same as when you turn a valve-guitar amp's equivalent is it? Nor should it be.


    I therefore suggest you try turning the Kemper's implementation of a rig's power amp, which I think is the "Volume" parameter on page 3 of the Amp Stack's settings, up, and the rig's volume, which is the knob to the right of the four bottom knobs on your KPA, down to compensate. If you like the playing and tonal response, save the rig for use at that particular volume.


    If I'm right this "improved" response you get at that volume should work pretty well for all your rigs, eh?


    Another tweak you might want to try is adjusting the Power Sagging (page 1 of the Amp Stack's settings) amount upwards.


    Fingers crossed that I'm not totally deluded on this...

  • Hi, guy's, interesting thoughts by all (thanks Monkey Man that's just about the only thing I didn't think to try did try the sagging but didn't do much to effect the fizz)


    I'm taking it to my local rehearsal studio tonight, just me alone in a room at serious volume (well band volume) and I play in a fairly loud classic rockband) I'll try increasing the amp vol and reducing the rig vol and see if that helps tighten things up.


    Hopeflly my aim is to see if I can get rid of the fizz i'm hearing top end through my 4x12 (cab sim is off), this is such a shame as the Kemper has so much bottom end (which I love) and plenty of volume (which I love) but all I can hear on the high gain stuff (even with the gain backed off to 12 o'clock) is fizz on the top end and I've tried eq'ing it out. I'll also try this direct through the rooms pa (though it not very good) but i'll see how that goes.


    This is such a shame at the moment as the unit is fantastic...but/ I have to say I've experienced this before, they always seem to do clean and fx superbly and struggle to replicate high gain sounds...Trivium don't seem to have a problem mind you!


    Cheers for now
    Niall

  • Hey Niall, cheers mate.


    My post above was aimed at Paul 'cause I think it's an issue of response / playability's not translating to what he'd expect at higher volumes.


    Your issue, however, sounds to me as if it's caused by your cabinet's high-end response. If it doesn't roll the top end off enough, for certain profiles, the fizz will remain. I assume you're aware that said fizz will always be there, with very rare exceptions, when no cab is employed; it's just the way amps sound without the high-end roll-off cabs provide. If it hardly rolls the high end off at all, practically every profile will sound awful.


    Whilst you may have, for example, chosen your cab because it sounded good with whichever amp/s you were running IRL, the Kemper profiles, even if of the same amps you're used to, all tend to sound a little different from each other due to real-word factors such as mics used, room acoustics, signal-path quality, mic preamp used, EQ employed (even outboard) and personal taste in tweaking whilst profiling and so on. On top of this there's the likelihood that you'll at least try hundreds, if not thousands of profiles through your cab, all of which were made and tweaked without the knowledge of exactly what its response is.


    It may be possible to have capacitors (I think that's what'd be used but I'm terrible with electronics / electricity) inserted into your cab in order to produce more appropriate roll-off amounts at the right frequencies. Basically there'd be a starting frequency and an xdB / octave attenuation above that frequency. The more dBs attenuated, the steeper the roll off. However it's done, I know this should be possible. Obviously swapping the speakers out for a set which produce less top end is the most logical option, but it could prove expensive as well as producing a "fixed", hit-and-miss result. I'm guessing that you may be able to get some sort of adjustable LPF (low-pass filter) fitted that'd let you set the high-frequency amount by ear in a jiffy; you'd be happy with that I reckon.


    This issue is one of the many that would see me, if I were to be playing live, going for an FRFR setup and using cab IRs on the Kemper. If I had to "get used" to a difference from using a conventional cabinet in this context, so be it. IMHO the benefits far outweigh the "adjustment's" effort.


    I appreciate that folks like to use the cabs they're used to 'though, so I sure hope something I said helps, Niall.

  • Hi guys,
    Well back from session at rehearsal studio, just me...the kemper and a 4x12 cab...ah as one door opens so another stays very much shut!
    First the door that opened. Played and tweaked (just a little) with rig volume & master volume...oh and power amp volume, loaded a pro purchased profile...and within a couple of minutes...boom the thing came alive!!..The bottom end on this EVH profile equals my real EVH sound if not betters it. I found that it was worth a/b/c'ing, a studio profile, then a direct profile then a merged profile...I think that the merged profile (with cab sim off) sounded great...you do have to adjust to taste, so I tweaked the amp settings including clarity and sag etc along with bass/mid/treb/pres I also found.....and this is strange that when I engaged the cab sim and tweaked its volume, which improved the sound, when I turned the cab sim off...the volume stayed put??..ummm oh well it improved the sound for me!
    Also worth mentioning for those of us playing the powered version through a normal cab...go into output settings, find monitor cab and tweak bass/mid/treb/pres on that...it really improved the sound of my 4x12 cab
    So all in all a very encouraging session with the 4x12...I will do a proper a/b with my cab and amp again just so I know but I came away much happier.
    Have to say this thing is seriously loud, Rig vol on 0(middle) Master Vol on 5 and Power Amp Boost on 7...this amp and its profiles comes ALIVE at volume...obvious really as 4x12 need to be driven.


    Now the door that stayed firmly shut! Whilst playing I thought i'd plug it into the PA....OH DEAR....normal mic lead out the left main output into desk, everything on the desk wound back, gain at 10 o'clock, bas/mid treb etc at 12 o'clock...Christ, what a horrible tinny distorted, unlistenable sound, KPA was set to mono master? at -14db so don't know what on earth is happening there..any thought on why the sound going to the pa is so bad?? I thought what came out of the 'main output' to the PA was supposed to be the profile and cab in all its glory?? It certainly wasn't very glorious that's for sure....I un plugged it very quickly.


    So to sum up, I'm getting the Kemper close to how my EVH sounds and that's the Kemper through my 4x12cab...as for getting it to sound great through the PA at the same time...I still have a long way to go.


    Cheers Niall

  • ...Now the door that stayed firmly shut! Whilst playing I thought i'd plug it into the PA....OH DEAR....normal mic lead out the left main output into desk, everything on the desk wound back, gain at 10 o'clock, bas/mid treb etc at 12 o'clock...Christ, what a horrible tinny distorted, unlistenable sound, KPA was set to mono master? at -14db so don't know what on earth is happening there..any thought on why the sound going to the pa is so bad??


    I will say that with inferior sounding FRFR you will never get a satisfactory experience at high volume levels.
    OTOH the Profiler in combination with a decent FRFR (like the Yamaha DXR 10 or the Atomic CLR) will sound absolutely great at any volume...


    Quoting myself here. What desk? What PA?
    You're sure you're not overloading the mixer?
    What cabs is the PA running?

  • Hi Guys,
    Well its a cheap desk, cheap pa, Alto active tops (so not great) this is a rehearsal room after all so stuff gets trashed! and is fairly bottom end stuff.
    I might have been overloading the PA but I tried not to, was aware of that but the sound was so bad...so tinny and thin...terrible, I had to un plug quickly otherwise the good work i did in getting my cab to sound pretty good would have been un done...and I left last night feeling very pleased.


    Raoul, you might be onto something...i'll check the output.


    Its something I'm doing wrong, I'm sure...so its just another door to open (bit like Attic Attack from the 80's which no one remembers I'm sure...you needed a Sinclair Spectrum computer...which is about my level at the moment!) :D


    At least at the moment I'm pleased with the sound I got, I'll purchase a few more pro rigs, who make the best profiles TAF are very excellent...anyone else?


    Cheers
    Niall

  • @Niall182


    Send me a PM/or email. come round audition some, play some stuff through cabs / poweramps /heads get a feel of it. - I can help you get the sound you want.. I don't mind helping considering your a stone throw from me.


    Best
    Andy


    Merry Christmas to Niall from Andy! There ya go what an offer from a tone guru. Awesome Andy :thumbup:

  • Sounds promising Niall. Sorry I missed your PM yesterday, I would have popped over and joined in if I'd seen it. Very interesting re the different volume settings and how they effected your results. Do you feel that the volume adjustments created a more focussed delivery from your cab?

  • BREAKTHROUGH AFTERNOON!!!....thank you everyone, all of you who have helped via this forum (and those of you who have helped me in person for no other reason than you could..you know who you are)...all appreciated.


    The key...well for me, some words of wisdom! By luck (or at least knowing what i wanted) finding the right profile...actually from Rig Exchange...and most of all perseverance.


    For us newbies...keep the faith (no I'm not a Bon Jovi fan), keep going, don't give up. When your fed up...switch off and come back to it the next day with fresh ears...but keep going, keep trying different profiles, dismiss instantly ones that are not right for you (they are not bad..just not right for your ear...and those who do go to the time and trouble of uploading should be commended for their efforts, Randy Rock...thank you for the Splawn Profile!! also FastRedPonyCar...free profiles.


    I'm still at the first step...but this thing is now starting to improve and sound huge plugged into my new 2x12...which reminds me I need to pay someone for that!!


    Thanks guys...
    Niall :)

  • Cheers Raoul...yes indeed you most certainly did!! :thumbup: Wise words indeed!! I'm still a long way down the road for sure but at last I seem to have found a profile for me...it might not be every ones cup of tea??...but thats what makes music such a joy...its horses for courses!!


    I'll work on this profile for a while as a base point, i'm using a TAF profile for my crunch which is top draw...but all this stuff is pretty fluid at the moment but I have come away this afternoon with a big smile on my face...which bearing in mind my face is a serious improvement!!


    Cheers dude, be in touch.