Explaining the modes

    Hi guys!



    It was requested in another thread to explain the theoretical side of the modes. So here we go (sorry if I’m probably not always using the right terms, I’m no native speaker):


    Our starting point is the C-major scale (C – D – E – F – G – A – B – C). Let’s have a look at the intervals between the notes. In halftones the structure is


    2 (C to D) – 2 (D to E) – 1 (E to F) – 2 (F to G) – 2 (G to A) – 2 (A to B) – 1 (B to C).


    Now see what happens to this structure if we’re starting the C-Major scale from D:


    D – E – F – G – A – B – C – D or in intervals: 2 – 1 – 2 – 2 – 2 – 1 – 2


    We can now start from every note of the C-major scale and will always get a different structure of the intervals. For a better overview I repeat the two structures above and write down the structure for the following notes together with the name of the modes:


    C to C (ionian or simply major): 2 – 2 – 1 – 2 – 2 – 2 – 1


    D to D (dorian): 2 – 1 – 2 – 2 – 2 – 1 – 2


    E to E (phrygian): 1 – 2 – 2 – 2 – 1 – 2 – 2


    F to F: (lydian): 2 – 2 – 2 – 1 – 2 – 2 – 1


    G to G (myxolydian): 2 – 2 – 1 – 2 – 2 – 1 – 2


    A to A (aeolian or simply natural minor): 2 – 1 – 2 – 2 – 1 – 2 – 2


    B to B (locrian): 1 – 2 – 2 – 1 – 2 – 2 – 2


    So, what do you do if you’d like to play e.g. E-phrygian? Take a look at the interval structure and apply it to the starting note E:


    E – F – G – A – B – C – D – E


    I hope you can follow me up to this point.


    The (maybe) harder question is: How to memorize this? I have a simple trick, at least I hope so. Let’s take phrygian and the C-major scale as an example again: As you can see above phrygian (E) is a major third above the root note (C). If now someone says “please play E-phrygian”, you should first remember that phrygian is a major third above the root note. The trick is to take this major third but go downwards from the root note and use the target note as your starting note for a major scale. If you go a major third downwards from your root note E, your target note will be C. So E-phrygian will simply be a C-major scale starting from E (as you can see in the example above).


    Another example: E-myxolydian. Myxolydian is a fifth above the root note. A fifth downwards from E is A. So simply play the A-major scale starting from E. Applying this trick to all modes:


    Ionian = nothing happens, simply play the major scale from your root note
    Dorian = the major scale which is a major second downwards from your root note
    Phrygian = the major scale which is a major third downwards from your root note
    Lydian = the major scale which is a fourth downwards from your root note
    Myxolydian = the major scale which is a fifth downwards from your root note
    Aeolian= the major scale which is a major sixth downwards from your root note
    Locrian = the major scale which is a major seventh downwards from your root note


    Hope this helps! In another post I will explain phrygian and lydian dominat as well, but for now I’m running out of time.

    I could have farted and it would have sounded good! (Brian Johnson)

    Edited once, last by Kempermaniac ().

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    the danger of this approach is that you tend to play the same stuff when using the same scale pattern.
    It is very helpful to think about modes in terms of chord tones and tensions.


    also, a mode needs to be established since we're all very much used to hearing either ionian (simply called 'major') or aeolian (simply called minor).


    I'll go into the details in a bit. ;)

    thanks much, I have read and studied these many times but they just do not want to enter my mind.
    I guess I'm good with major, minors, 7ths and blue notes. that's already hard to remember for me. and when i'm fed up I play 30sec power chords and I shout

    So, here we go with phrygian and lydian dominant, starting with phrygian dominant:


    As you can see above, the phrygian scale has a minor third (in the example above: E to G), so the first chord in that scale is a minor chord. In the example above: E-minor consisting of the notes E, G and B. For phrygian dominant simply make this minor third a major third and leave the rest as it is. This makes the first chord a major chord, so E-phrygian dominant looks like this:


    E – F – G# – A – B – C – D – E


    Lydian dominant:


    Let's start with the "normal" lydian scale. For example C-lydian looks like this: C – D – E – F# – G – A – B – C
    As you can see the scale contains a major seventh. In lydian dominant you simply make this a minor seventh, so C-lydian dominant looks like this:


    C – D – E – F# – G – A – Bb – C

    I could have farted and it would have sounded good! (Brian Johnson)

    Thanks, Raoul! Let me add that your sentence "Modes are just degrees of the major scale (using a different note as the root)" is maybe misleading for beginners, because one could think e.g. C-dorian is simply playing the C-major scale from D to D. But this isn't the truth! You'll still have to apply the dorian-interval-structure to your root note, so C-dorian looks like this: C – D – Eb – F – G – A – Bb – C. As you can see this scale contains the notes Eb and Bb which are not part of a C-major scale.


    Practice tip: Search YouTube for "backing track" plus whatever mode you like to practice. Add the key if you like to practice a certain scale in a certain key.

    I could have farted and it would have sounded good! (Brian Johnson)

    Edited once, last by Kempermaniac ().

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    No Kempermaniac I'm say the Dorian mode is playing the major scale pattern but mid the 1st note, so C major but just start this pattern from the 2nd note (which is D) Therefore you have missed the C note out but played the same pattern and added the 1 note you missed out on the bottom string being a D. I know this sounds confusing but once seen in person it's so easy. Dont over think them and learn the modes and there degrees of the major scale and all will be well :)

    It is indeed confusing for me like you explain it. It's right that if you're playing a major scale starting with the second note it is dorian. But that's just the dorian interval-structure. Like I said above: playing the C-major scale from D to D doesn't make it C dorian.

    I could have farted and it would have sounded good! (Brian Johnson)

    No it makes it D Dorian


    C major = C D E F G A B
    D Dorian = D E F G A B C
    E Phyrgian = E F G A B C D


    etc etc All scales contain the same notes :)


    same with relative major and minor which in fact contain the same notes


    C Major C D E F G A B
    A Minor A B C D E F G


    same notes so basically same scale, just like you mentioned in your first post it's the tone/semi tone order that changes which gives it its sound. This built around the chords that are accompanying add to its tonal sound also

    Now I get what you mean, thanks. :)


    So instead of going downwards (as I suggested in my initial post) you could think of it in another way (e.g. phrygian):


    1. phrygian always starts on the major third of a major-scale
    2. ask yourself "in what major scale is my root note the major third"?


    It's basically the same as I suggested but a slightly different way of thinking.

    I could have farted and it would have sounded good! (Brian Johnson)

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    It is all very simple and starting on the 2nd note (for example) or 2nd position could a Dorian make. But as with all things in life, it's about the context the notes are played in and the ones you focus on.


    So say you are playing over a minor chord and focus on the chord tones, but then throw in a major 6th instead of the 'normal' minor 6th, you create a Dorian sound


    A good way to practise it can be to use a minor pentatonic and then just add that major 6th occasionally and listen to how this sounds against the minor chord.


    you could then do the same adding just the flat second to get an idea of the Phrygian etc.


    The musical / chordal context is what is important here (and I guess that's what Don meant earlier on) - and the way of starting with the pentatonic scales (major and minor) and adding the "flavour notes" each mode probably leads to a more musical result than just playing the scales up and down (mathematically correct) and not focusing on the "flavour notes".

    Please let me add that I've never suggested playing scales up and down. Everything in music should be seen in a musical context. I just wanted to explain the theoretical concept. I knew about that concept for at least 25 years but only recently started to improvise in these modes. What I've found out so far is, that you can play nearly every note of these modal scales over the "right" chords, it will always sound good and interesting. Lot's of notes will sound like flavour notes. That's the beauty of these modes.

    I could have farted and it would have sounded good! (Brian Johnson)

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    Alright...
    Tbh: I knew what modes are - I took the approach like Raoul...
    I learned this from my first guitar teacher, whom I still miss like hell... Never found a similar good one again.
    However, I missed to learn, when to use them.
    Do you have any hint here?


    I would have to write a song in d Dorian to use it?
    It would also have the same chords like c major, just starting with d minor?

    Be all carefull.


    The "modes" we call like this in europe (aka "church scales") had a very,very clear purpose when they were "discovered".In ancient times!!Every mode had to "express an emotion".This was the only purpose.This is "scientific" and no theory..a lot of ancient findings say this.The issue was "deeply philosphical" and in my humble opinion it still is!


    So just starting with the mathematical approach is good and nice in a modern "non-emotional" world in which kids learn that cold mathematics and statistics are far more important "for life" than emotions.Seriously..I had students who were mostly satisfied that they knew about 3/4 & 7/8 or 3/4 & 5/6 instead to care about HOW it sounds and feels.


    Sorry for my pathos in this issue but I feel the need to say it (again and again) loud and clear...music is the "mathematics of our emotions"!It is not "music is mathematics" which is so typical european.You can see this in Jazz and classical music.


    Learn all the modes.Learn what ever about modes..that F#-phrygian is G-lydian and A-mixo and,and,and...whatever.Use the logical chord progressions which are very,very interesting to learn.Opens up a new world.


    But most important about the modes is to learn their "feel"..


    I could write thousand of pages about it but some years of teaching have thought me-the teacher-much more than I could ever teach my students.I could tell you so many artists who love specific modes and use them "all day long" like Blackmore=dorian,Jeff Beck=Mixo etc,etc,etc..will not help.


    I make it short.


    Ionian and Aeolian dont need any exlanation.We all know the "happy-sad" stuff.Or what every teacher like to tell the kids "major is for national hymns and childrens songs(or top40 I may ad at this place) while minor is for ballads" blabla..this one is simple.


    Mixolydian;Kinky.Sexy.The extravagant brother of the ionian.You can use it almost over all major-songs.Specially the "simple ones".You just need good ears.


    Lydian;Strange feel.Northern europeans (not irish and scottish people!) have seriously problems to describe it.Not "arabic",it sounds "european" but not really.It is as sad as it is positive.I call it the "aegean-scale" or the Mediterranean-mode.Who ever sat on a ship during late summer watching the sun going down in the med-sea will know what I mean.The big disadvantage...this is no mode "to meet and jam" with your buddies late at night in some club..listen to Gilmour ("Michalis") or Satriani (Flying/blue dream).


    Dorian;I love this one.The "intellectual brother" of the aeolian mode.I mentioned already Blackmore.Most folks play lead over "Soldiers of Fortune" or "Catch the rainbow" in the aeolian mode..poor guys.. ;)
    This mode is very "lyrical".You can tell stories with it.Much better than with the minor scale.Because a good story has happy sides and sad things to tell.Like this mode.


    Phrygian;This one is easy.Passion.Flamenco!A dance for life or death.. :D


    I dont use the lokrian mode at all.So I will decline to comment about its "emotion".


    Btw..Mixo and Lydian are (if I am not wrong) part of the mela´s of the indian music.Ravi Shankar...D-Lydian..


    The irish use almost exclusivly dorian instead of minor and mixo instead of major.Here in greece and the balkans in general (Steve Vai had to "eat" bulgarian music when he "learned" with Zappa) it is a chaos of scales (and gooves).


    Maybe I will make some youtube in the future.Still havent found a place for my studio.I have seen a lot of material on the internet but imo there is still a lot to be heard (to much words in all these youtube-mode-lessons).

    You are true about the Maths part of music I have students that are grade 8 player and are exceptional players but put them in a band situation and they shy away, they don't know how to improvise properly, they can't jam but give them a Grade 8 piece of music and they will blitz it lol


    music is all about feel and the most important part but it is also good to no why you are doing something and why it sounds like that

    @Raoul23 Frank Gambale had a good way to practise the modes, he recorded a vamp with the bass note of the mode and IV and V triads from the home major e.g for D Dorian you have F/D and G/ D . One bar of each is good and just let it go round and round, iReal pro is probably good for this, I used to do it on a cassette tape. To start with, you can just play the home major scale (in this case C) and you produce the modal sound whether you like it or not. Over time you start to make sense of the modal tones in their correct place. It,works for all the modes but if you're not familiar with them it takes a little thought

    A brace of Suhrs, a Charvel, a toaster, an Apollo twin, a Mac, and a DXR10

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