Explaining the modes

    I think everyone is good here.


    From a Trombone player: Rich Matteson (1929 - 1993)


    I didn't know him, but found this writing to be very inspiring even if you eliminate the religious aspect. I thought I'd share it even if it helps one person to work harder towards their musical goals (whether transcribing, self-taught, modes, metal, jazz, folk, pop, rock etc.), hope you don't mind. We are all very similar in our love of music.


    From Mr. Matteson:
    "Music is an incredible gift. It's a gift that God doesn't give to everybody. He gives them the gift of 'liking' music; everybody likes music of one kind or another. But the gift of being able to learn to play music is an incredible gift. And you people are very special because you were chosen and given that gift. The day you were born the world became richer than it was because of your presence with that gift. That's what I believe.


    And so you study and you work hard to develop the talent that God gave you, and the wild thing is that the bucket of talent you were given is so big, that you could practice 8 hours a day the rest of your life and you wouldn't use it all up, you couldn't develop it all.


    But as I told the band yesterday, this gift you've been given does many things. For example, you people grant immortality to composers. Bach is not dead, Beethoven's not dead, Mozart's not dead, Duke isn't dead. The body's gone, but what they gave to the world on paper that made the world richer than it was before. They gave the world all this beautiful music and they put it on paper, and because it's on paper it's just a graph. It doesn't mean anything until you come along, and with the breath of your body, you take that musical instrument and you read that music and you change it to sound. And the minute you change it to sound, Bach is not dead, neither is Beethoven. Their music is being heard, and what they represent to the world, because of your gift. That's how special you are!


    Whatever band you're in, it doesn't make any difference if you're playing first chair or third or fourth, your part is important and you are special, because you were given that gift."

    Quote from Nikos


    I am very sorry because I have the feeling I derailed this thread.


    I think, that you did not hurt somebody so much, that you should feel guilty in some way..
    It was some misunderstanding and for me it seems to be cleared.
    I appreciate your expert input. You need not think about, is it important, to much or to theoretical. There are many threads here. Everybody could choose another.
    The discussion has left the bottom of fact and the topic, but this is human. Lets go back.
    Are there hints when you can us a certain mode at a given chord change.? I dont mean rules becaus every rule you can do the oposite I you know what yie do or if you like

    Quote from Sharry

    I think, that you did not hurt somebody so much, that you should feel guilty in some way..
    It was some misunderstanding and for me it seems to be cleared.
    I appreciate your expert input. You need not think about, is it important, to much or to theoretical. There are many threads here. Everybody could choose another.
    The discussion has left the bottom of fact and the topic, but this is human. Lets go back.
    Are there hints when you can us a certain mode at a given chord change.? I dont mean rules becaus every rule you can do the oposite I you know what yie do or if you like


    @Nikos, I agree wholeheartedly with @Sharry in that fact that you did not derail this thread nor make it any less interesting by us going OT a bit. This thread has already sparked a fire in some, me for one, to learn more about the modes and different ways to accomplish that feat even if it does take a lifetime. Please continue with your input because I for one am listening ?( to everyone giving their take on this thread.

    Hmm..


    Quote

    Are there hints when you can us a certain mode at a given chord change.? I dont mean rules becaus every rule you can do the oposite I you know what yie do or if you like


    All progressions and chords we have seen here are very good.


    BUT I would keep it in the beginning much (much much much) more easy.


    Take 2 chords.Not more.For example excercising dorian mode in the key of E let us use just an Em7 with open D-string and then change to Asus4 with an open G-string.The "more open" a chord the more atmopshere & "space" you get.Play the chords by picking the whole thing nice and slowly.Create a "relaxed" JJ Cale style atmo and give it a try.Use the "I play in B-aolian"-minor/D-major/ionian-scale" pattern-thinking (you could try my three notes per string pattern if you like to) and all you have to do is to take care that you start and end your phrases in E.Try to use the open E-/and A-sring as "drones" or even pedal notes while you are changing between chord-/and lead playing.Make use of "relaxed" bendings and while doing it dont forget to use also half-tone bends (C# to D on the g-string,F# to E on the B-string or C# to D on the high e-string).Create little melodies and themes and try to understand the "lyrical" side of this mode.It is so different from the aeloian/minor-thinking/feel.Sounds to easy;No.It is a lots of work to make this "sound".


    Tell me how it works for you and then we go for some Mixo-style of excersise if you like..

    @Nikos
    sorry I don't have much time but I just wanted to say that everything's alright :)
    No hard feelings. I now get what you were trying to say and I'm sorry for taking it personal.
    I'll surely come back to this thread later, but I don't have time this weekend.
    Again thank you all for your participation in this wonderful thread :)

    Quote from Nikos

    For example excercising dorian mode in the key of E let us use just an Em7 with open D-string and then change to Asus4 with an open G-string.


    Hi Nikos and who ever is interested.
    I tried now for one hour and it was a nice experience. :) (Hard to find a line which starts and end with the same tone).
    I played each chord for 2 Bars and made a short backing track with Band in the Box..
    One thing still confuses me.
    In this mini chord progression , for me Asus4 is tonica(1st) and the Em7 is dominante (5th). (even in Asus we do not play the terz(3rd) - the scale with C# give the Major-terz)
    Why E dorian and not A myxolydian. Just because the starting and ending tone (E) as quint (5th) of the tonica chord.?


    Hi Tritium,
    like this post very much. This is one of my mostely used scale. 3 notes per string scales are very comfortable to play (imo) it doesent matter if you play with alternate pcing or legato. This is one of Yngwies secrets: he comines 3 notes per string scales with arps and he put in tons of notes, fluidly played into a clock (dont know if this is the right word, in German its called "Takt"). Mostly it's not so well in time, but every time his starting point and last tone is absolutely in time. I get nuts when i heard him playing for the first time and i thought, what the hell is he doing on the fretboard (early 80th, no internet). I bought the first songbook and closed it after minutes. Frustrating! 100 notes in a line, played in seconds.....
    After the years i get closer to his technique because i studied the 3 notes per string scale that you have posted and sometimes i put some sweep arps into it.Thank again for your post, it reminds me how many hours i spend with it and how helpful it was.
    Here is a short example what i mean, i called it a-fringwie (a comination of Frank and Ingwie ;) )


    External Content soundcloud.com
    Content embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.
    Through the activation of external content, you agree that personal data may be transferred to third party platforms. We have provided more information on this in our privacy policy.



    cheers
    Frank


    and......


    Outstanding playing, Frank!
    Well done. :thumbup:


    Yngwie has been a huge influence on me, as a guitarist. The study and practice of his music and guitar style has greatly expanded my guitar "vocabulary", and taken my playing to an entirely other level.


    You had mentioned an important aspect of Yngwie's playing, which sets him apart from the many guitar virtuosos who followed in his footsteps. During a solo, Yngwie does not play in a rigid, strict time. This is of course a hallmark of great classical musicians, especially pianists and violinists. It is called tempo rubato technique, and is an expressive form of playing whereby the musician may depart from strict rhythmic time, during the course of a musical phrase or measure (by slightly speeding up or slowing down tempo), while resolving back into exact time at the endpoints. This free-form playing creates a subtle tension and release, which imparts emotion and dynamics to the performance. This is in direct contrast to the clinical, robotic playing style of so many other guitarists from the "shred" school.


    Cheers,
    John

    Quote

    I tried now for one hour and it was a nice experience.


    Oh..I envy you..exploring these things is a such a nice thing.I wish I could make this expirience again..Enjoy it!


    Quote

    One thing still confuses me.In this mini chord progression , for me Asus4 is tonica(1st) and the Em7 is dominante (5th). (even in Asus we do not play the terz(3rd) - the scale with C# give the Major-terz)Why E dorian and not A myxolydian. Just because the starting and ending tone (E) as quint (5th) of the tonica chord.?


    Friend honestly..how could this be important right now;But I will try to answer with the most simple waysince there is no reason to make this "difficult"..


    We want the "dorian feel" so if the whole thing is about to make sense then E is the root.If A is the tonic we will play in mixolydian.But this is not what we want to play right now.Now you will ask "thats it;That all;"Yes it is!Or at least right now let us keep it that simple.And when we keep it that simple (for now) you will start to understand that there are no limits because EVERYTHING on the fretboard starts now to become just a "point of view".And your ear is chief.. 8)


    In general music is that simple.Modes are JUST EMOTIONS and nothing else.You dont MIT-grades to "do it" as the industry wants us to make believe.


    Now please..keep on playing.As Jimi asked.."Are you expirienced".You already gave the answer.. :D

    Quote from Nikos

    We want the "dorian feel" so if the whole thing is about to make sense then E is the root


    Thanks for answer :)
    Its not so easy to leave a path which is gone for decades. :/
    I was mainly a rhythm guitar player in a world of chords and harmonies.
    I like to play solo but I could not make a living.
    As far as I understand, and this is now an interpretation, I should try to learn like a child. Just doing and not analyze.
    Sounds like an adventure. But why not. I can do now what ever I want.
    But it has to keep in mind - a child learns faster. ;)
    I think it would help me to have some chord progressions and one or more relevant scales without any explanation at the moment.

    Quote from Nikos


    I am very sorry because I have the feeling I derailed this thread.


    From where I'm sitting, not at all. You've provided a lot of great info and also an insight into what it looks like from the other side of the fence, so to speak. Having also started late in life and not gotten very far yet, I'm pretty sure I'll never get to your level of understanding music. Which is why I really appreciate reading thoughts from the people who do. To me, it's pretty much indistinguishable from magic. :thumbup:

    I'm just trying to be as truthful to my experience and personal opinion that I'm clearly presenting only as a personal opinion no more no less in an honest and truthful discussion about equipment.

    Quote from Nikos

    We want the "dorian feel" so if the whole thing is about to make sense then E is the root.


    update :
    I know it's off topic in your sence.
    But it had bothered me. It was a simple II-V Progression in D - which I did not consider because of strange sound with open strings and the sus. And now my wold again is OK :D
    Stay tuned and continue if you would mind - Harry

    @MuddyFox


    Quote

    To me, it's pretty much indistinguishable from magic


    Friend..I beg you dont do this.Dont fall into this trap.When I started my "journey to the modes" I was like "cant be this easy.No one ever told me that it would be so easy.Why do these fu%$§rs act like it is rocket science;"


    Seeing music just as a way of expression is the key.It is not a science.These modes "were made" for the one and only reason to express each of them a certain feel.We had in previous posts this discussion about the classical 8th grade musicians who dont know how to jam,to do improvisations and to "let themselves go"..actually we have a music industry which has learned to seperate us.The "serious music" and the "popmusic" and whatever.This sells(well,not anymore)They made a lots of money with it.Later with the internet they learned that they are not god.And now we see the damage.Big room for discussion but not yet in this thread.


    Just one thing.


    Our "european" or "western approach" of arts has reached a dead point.For me it is obvious.Only the "back to the roots"-way of making things will save it. :/


    And another fact:We europeans use mainly just the "major/minor-thing" with making in the same time our frame (chord progressions etc) more and more complex trying to cover everything.On the other side we had all these techo/eletronic music which most of the time was just monophonic garbage with deadly stupid beats..what a negative combination..


    All other civilisations use more modes,scales but with much more easy way of "supporting them".Which is the most logical approach imo.You need "open space" to fly free..


    @Sharry


    Quote

    As far as I understand, and this is now an interpretation, I should try to learn like a child. Just doing and not analyze. .


    Actually as soon as we loose our "childrens perspective" we loose everything music & arts try to do with us..
    The "brain vs feeling"-dispute in music is as old as civilisation itself.But as musicians (and artists) we should not wait anyone else to help us decide which way to go.Sure not the industry,nor the "media" who decided at some point that "being a rockstar" is a good thing to sell..


    And we definitly need to analyze.But only with the aim to make ouselves "express better" our emotions at any give time we have inspiration and the lust for music.As a child would try to make its toy fit better to the way it likes to play with it.


    Quote

    Sounds like an adventure. But why not. I can do now what ever I want


    This!


    For any adventure we need "courage".And for me this is the absolute number one reason some many people dont take advantage of their god given talents.Nobody in school or society has ever teached us to be couragous in expressing ouirselves.The opposite is the case.Tey only teach us to "fit in into the needs of the society" and the "economy".


    So by this..arts and music have always been a "political thing".

    3nps is working out great, especially in how it fits in with the different modes. The fretboard is starting to come alive!! See ya got to go practice and jam some more. Thanks again to all :thumbup:

    Quote from Sharry

    Thanks - for me some time it's not so easy to identify abbariations in english.
    Special not early in the morning after a rehearsal :D


    Sorry @Sharry for the mix up for you. We learn together even though we are far apart. Thanks for being part of this thread, you ask some good questions that help me also.

    Quote from Zapman

    Sorry Sharry for the mix up for you. We learn together even though we are far apart. Thanks for being part of this thread, you ask some good questions that help me also.


    Theres no need not to say sorry. It was a hard nights morning - my brain was lazy ;)
    The thread has motivated me to practice this type of scales maybe with another point of view as before.
    In the mean time I found a lot of backing tracks at youTube for rehearsal.
    Still I'm interested for more knowledge about chord progressions and using the right scale.
    But I also play with backing tracks without analyzing.
    Have mode - have fun :) - Harry