"Vintage"-Delays vs todays Delay-Units

    Since I have lost any "relation" to the "guitar effects"-market out there since many,many years ago here is my question:


    Are there any guys in this forum who still have some T.C.2290 or a roland SDE or some PCM-41/70;If yes,maybe we have also some guys who have made some "vs" comparison with new delays like all these Strymon and new Eventides;


    Finally..if the newer digital delays are so fine and good and so much better than the vintage stuff...why all these new digital delays which "try" to sound like the old analogue ones;

    I'd say analog - digital is a different debate than vintage - new. It's not because it's new that it's digital or that old means analog. The 2290 is a digital vintage unit, the Fulltone Tube Tape Echo is a newer analog unit.

    I haven't had the units you mention except for the Strymon Timeline.


    I would say that it's not a case of 'if the new ones are so good why are they trying to sound like the old ones?'. It's realising that tape delays vs original 'bucket brigade' analogue delays vs early digital delays vs more modern delays all sound a bit different. The Timeline tries to recreate the sounds of many different kinds of delays from vintage to modern to 'what on earth is that?'.


    So it's a bit like the Kemper does for guitar amps in a way - some people would think that a Fender Tweed is the ultimate amp and some would not thank you for it, preferring instead a 5150. Same with delays.... Sometimes it is the imperfections of the technology at the time that make it special in certain ways. IMO anyway :)

    Quote from Laurens

    I'd say analog - digital is a different debate than vintage - new. It's not because it's new that it's digital or that old means analog. The 2290 is a digital vintage unit, the Fulltone Tube Tape Echo is a newer analog unit.


    Ofcourse you are right.


    So more correct it is "vintage analogue/dynamic/older lower bit digital" vs new 16/24-bit delays;


    Btw the 2290 is as far as I can remember a "dynamic delay";


    @gary


    I know what you mean.But for me it is more interesting if the new delays can sound as "musical" as the older ones.Also I would like to know if it is "just my memories" which make the older ones in my eyes sounding so much warmer when I compare them with the newer ones lets say on youtube.Maybe I was just "young and easy to impress" some 20 years back and still "stuck in old habits" ie the way I hear;

    Edited 2 times, last by Nikos ().

    Quote from Nikos

    Ofcourse you are right.


    So more correct it is "vintage analogue/dynamic/older lower bit digital" vs new 16/24-bit delays;


    Btw the 2290 is as far as I can remember a "dynamic delay"


    It's a dynamic delay, but that doesn't make it less digital. It's one of the finest digital delays ever made though, in my opinion. On the other hand, I'd say the Timeline is on par with about anything I've ever heard. It's really stellar. However, for feeding multiple delays into each other, I'd still go analog.

    This post reminded me of the Fulltone TTE. Looking back at the FT website, boy does that sound good. I wonder if the KPA compares or will compare after we get the new delays? I had a Carbon Copy and thought the KPA did that and more with some tweaking. I haven't lusted for much lately.

    Edited once, last by djazz ().

    Quote from Laurens

    It's a dynamic delay, but that doesn't make it less digital. It's one of the finest digital delays ever made though, in my opinion. On the other hand, I'd say the Timeline is on par with about anything I've ever heard. It's really stellar. However, for feeding multiple delays into each other, I'd still go analog.


    I thank you very much for all these observations,very important indeed.Well the 2290 is sure no tape delay.. :D


    But nevertheless we speak about a 30 years old non-stereo-first generation rack-tool which sounds much much warmer than any todays 24bit delays.Would you agree;Or maybe not;And why so; ;)


    In my "grown up in the 70s-80s ears" this is the case.Maybe there are some other "more fresh" ears who can copy that;Actually this is my issue and not the exact definition and how much bit any of these tools express...as it becomes more and more clear we speak as musicians more and more about how this stuff out there actually sounds and not about its technical fact sheets.Not to say that this data sheets are not important but obviously some guys out there (including me) are "used" over decades to have some sounds in their ear and would like to compare this sound with the new true-supa dupa 24bit stereo-/X-FI-5.1-stuff out there.

    Well, I'm a fair bit younger (23 at the moment) and I don't own a 2290, so I can't tell you that. I've used it on a few occasions, but I can't give you a straight comparison. I can't say I've ever bought something based on technical specs, by the way. I won't rule something out because of some spec I don't like either. In the end, it's about what sounds good and certainly for live-application, I don't think anything I've used or heard can beat the Strymon Timeline for value. I have to stress that the idea of having presets is very important to me. One analog delay with a tap tempo might suffice for you, while it doesn't for me. I like the weird stuff you find in a Timeline and I use analog delays mostly for feeding one into another. Or I'll feed an analog one into a digital one, whatever works.

    I watched lately many delay comparison tests on youtube.I dont know any of the new delays and sure they sound amazing for todays music..as all the delays in PRO TOOLS and logic sound superb for what they are and for what they are needed.This is not my problem.I just miss some of the "inspiration" I had with the stuff many years ago.


    This is difficult to explain.But I dont find any of these newer effects "inspirational".But maybe it is just my "tired ears" and not the fault of the new generation-effects..I would like to find this out.

    Maybe the conventional use of delay has lost its inspirational value for you? Have you tried the more unique stuff like shimmer and reverse? What I'd suggest also trying is routing effects through your delayed signal only. I don't know how you'd go about it, but I used to have a Deluxe Memory Boy (great pedal, by the way) that offered an effects loop. You could put a tremolo in that, and it would only affect the wet signal. You could probably route something like that in DAW as well, but I can't tell you how off the top of my head. Probably with busses.

    I use my T.C G-Force for Dely and reverb.. much more dynamic than the current delys in the Kemper.. it dont have these nonmusical tikk takk sounds at the end.. and respond very much on attac.. long notes blure out even, and hard stops delys a couple of times as i want it.. its hard to explain, but i like the oldschool delys..

    Quote from Laurens

    Maybe the conventional use of delay has lost its inspirational value for you? Have you tried the more unique stuff like shimmer and reverse? What I'd suggest also trying is routing effects through your delayed signal only. I don't know how you'd go about it, but I used to have a Deluxe Memory Boy (great pedal, by the way) that offered an effects loop. You could put a tremolo in that, and it would only affect the wet signal. You could probably route something like that in DAW as well, but I can't tell you how off the top of my head. Probably with busses.



    pretty easy - just bus the original track to an aux track, put on a 100% wet delay there, and afterwards whatever effect you want (like a flanger etc - or even some nasty distortion). Tweak the send level on the original track to achieve the blend you want.

    Well..I am a huge "Ohm-Boyz" fan... ^^


    But ofcourse this only while recording and not at all on guitar (did mostly HipHop & RnB during the last years recording most of the times some vocalists to earn a few euros).Live I never liked to use much effects.So I soent my money on other stuff (amps,guitars and later studio-equipment) than to buy some guitar delay pedal for 500 bucks..


    Also..my problem is that "shimmer" and all that is nice but do not sound as "warm" as I need it to get "warm feelings"...ya know.. :D


    I will see what I can do with the new KPA-delays.

    Quote from Morty

    I use my T.C G-Force for Dely and reverb.. much more dynamic than the current delys in the Kemper.. it dont have these nonmusical tikk takk sounds at the end.. and respond very much on attac.. long notes blure out even, and hard stops delys a couple of times as i want it.. its hard to explain, but i like the oldschool delys..


    I only tried once the G-force..did you ever try the T.C.-stuff from the 80s;I would like to have some comparison between the G-force delay and the 2290..

    Quote from Michael_dk

    pretty easy - just bus the original track to an aux track, put on a 100% wet delay there, and afterwards whatever effect you want (like a flanger etc - or even some nasty distortion). Tweak the send level on the original track to achieve the blend you want.


    Yeah, I was thinking along those lines, but I don't often use bussing for convenience, so I wasn't sure. Thanks for the clarification! ^^

    Quote from Nikos

    Well..I am a huge "Ohm-Boyz" fan...


    Also..my problem is that "shimmer" and all that is nice but do not sound as "warm" as I need it to get "warm feelings"...ya know.. :D


    Check out Soundtoys, brother Nikos.


    I used to love the Ohm stuff too, so I hear you. Had all of their free stuff years back but support dropped off with each OSX upgrade IIRC.

    Quote from Nikos

    I only tried once the G-force..did you ever try the T.C.-stuff from the 80s;I would like to have some comparison between the G-force delay and the 2290..


    I think the base of the G-Force dely is the 2290! You have this Dynamic Dely, used by all the 80s guitarists ex. Pink Floyd, Iron Maiden, Brian May, Mark Knopfler, Steve Vai... Earlier it was possivle ti by memory cards with ex. Steve Vai presets.. dont think this format exist now! The T.C. Flaschback also have the 2290 built in! I carry a small rack anyway for wireless and carry cables, so I will always have my G-force with me.. It may be old, but it have made my signaturesound for almost 15 years! and it can match the delys on the market now 20 years after..

    Hi All,


    I think the main difference in the Kemper delays is in the way the controls work, the mix, feedback and other settings do not feel exactly like the equivalent of the rack gear. I do think Kemper will be adding some new algorithms in a near future release of the OS. They do sound pretty good but I still miss my Roland tape echo.


    I have been considering buying a delay unit and using it in the send/return loop but perhaps that won't be necessary moving forward.

    Quote from kennyj

    Hi All,


    I think the main difference in the Kemper delays is in the way the controls work, the mix, feedback and other settings do not feel exactly like the equivalent of the rack gear. I do think Kemper will be adding some new algorithms in a near future release of the OS. They do sound pretty good but I still miss my Roland tape echo.


    I have been considering buying a delay unit and using it in the send/return loop but perhaps that won't be necessary moving forward.

    You heard the news from NAMM, right?

    I have been considering buying a delay unit and using it in the send/return loop but perhaps that won't be necessary moving forward.[/quote]You heard the news from NAMM, right?[/quote]



    Thats a very good and unike thing about Kemper!! they listen to their users and make new options! And the best of all its for free!! I am not a computergeek, but its very easy to update, and user interface is very nice on the Kemper!
    I am realy looking forward to try out some new delays very soon!!! :)