Do I really need a FRFR speaker (Friedman ASM-12) or just use my studio monitors for jammin?

  • Hi everyone, I am about to buy a Friedman ASM-12 FRFR speaker for my Kemper. My reason for it is ordinary jammin. Mostly along with backing tracks and just practicing and playing in my bedroom. I dont intend to use it for a band situation. I currently have a pair of Mackie M8 monitors that I use for playing and recording.


    My question is, do I really need a FRFR speaker? What advantage will it give me compared to my monitors? Will it give me a true 'Amp in the room' sound? Is it worth it to get the Friedman FRFR for what I want to use it for? I am just wondering if it will give me much more than just a slight increase in punch and volume.


    Thanks for any opinions. Currently I'm swayed to buy the FRFR but I'd like to hear what some of you with FRFR speakers in addition to monitors think before I plunk down the cash.


    Thanks so much!

  • Thats good advice, here is one more thing to consider, With all the CAB (and real CAB) scenarios and subtle differences that a FRFR speaker will produce verse a monitor, its going to come down to it being subjective, (i know that answer sucks) but bare with me.


    You can read that THERE ARE DIFFERENCES in some of the good FRFR's like the Mission engineering Gemini 2 (stereo) and some other good FRFR cabinets like the Atomix Amps WEDGE and the DXR10 Paults use for gigs. Are Monitors better? Well....


    Yes this is a pain in the you know what to decide, BUT A GOOD FRFR STEREO SPEAKER WILL PROBABLY SOUND BETTER TO YOU THEN MONITORS...how can you tell if its worth it, this is the pain in the backside part, YOU HAVE TO TRY THEM.


    My bet is you will love the FRFR stereo speaker more...but if its tiny differences you can live with, then so be it, why not get the full Kemper experience, i realize my post probably doesn't make it easier but this is some thing to consider.


    would you be using mainly high gain??? one more thing to consider...REMEMBER A GOOD TONE AT HOME MAKES YOU WRITE MUSIC....its the truth!


    Ash

    Have a beer and don't sneer. -CJ. Two non powered Kempers -Two mission stereo FRFR Cabs - Ditto X4 -TC electronic Mimiq.


  • Thanks you guys, Ash, yes I'd be using it for alot pf Hi Gain, metal and rock is what I mostly play. Some clean stuff as well. I was thinking of the Friedman ASM-12. I hear its pretty good but it is cheaper than the Atomic CLR and some others so I'm not sure if it is as good or not. This will be for bedroom jammin.

  • Ok, you MAY get away with it, but i have read high gain in the atomic CLR wedge (like metal and Djent etc) can get muddy (search in the forum posts). Will that happen in the Friedman (dont know)


    My friend, i would bite the bullet, save up and get a mission engineering gemini 2, OR TRY THE FRIEDMEN IN HIGH GAIN FIRST, you get stereo and a great sound with mission, i would save up, do not buy the friedmen until you try it , i would hate for you to waste that (at least try high gain through it) I think if its low volume in the bedroom?, you most likely not care or notice, but stereo is awesome :)


    Ash

    Have a beer and don't sneer. -CJ. Two non powered Kempers -Two mission stereo FRFR Cabs - Ditto X4 -TC electronic Mimiq.

    Edited 3 times, last by ashtweth ().

  • Ok, you MAY get away with it, but i have read high gain in the atomic CLR wedge (like metal and Dejent etc) can get muddy (search in the forum posts). Will that happen in the Friedman (dont know)


    My friend, i would bite the bullet, save up and get a mission engineering gemini 2, OR TRY THE FRIEDMEN IN HIGH GAIN FIRST, you get stereo and a great sound with mission, i would save up, do not buy the friedmen until you try it , i would hate for you to waste that (at least try high gain through it) I think if its low volume in the bedroom?, you most likely not care or notice, but stereo is awesome :)


    Ash


    Thanks Ash. I checked out the Gemini online briefly. Looks to be around $1500. That actually looks a bit more to my liking than the Friedman! I could probably swing the few extra hundred to go with the Gemini if it's going to be superior to the Friedman. I also like that its a 2X12. So this Speaker sounds great with Hi-Gain? How would I connect it to my Kemper? Standard XLR? Would that be in Stereo?

  • any time my friend, so far the Gemini video demo here sounded good on High gain (he went through cleans too)

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    Now the the connection options include two analogue inputs, an analogue stereo link output (which actually carries the right–hand side of a stereo signal) and a USB port, allowing you to connect a Mac or PC running a guitar–amp modelling software package. Check here my friend
    http://www.soundonsound.com/so…cles/mission-gemini-2.htm


    Now are we being fair to the Friedman and monitors?, i dont know i DO know that stereo is kick ass , and i bet if you tried them both, my money is on you would like stereo...


    Ash

    Have a beer and don't sneer. -CJ. Two non powered Kempers -Two mission stereo FRFR Cabs - Ditto X4 -TC electronic Mimiq.

  • Forgot to post this encase you miss it from the edit, looks all good with low string and high gain..


    RE connection from the video comments


    I've tried all kind of different connections but currently I use the xlr main outs on the Kemper to the 1/4 inch trs input on the Gemini 2 using a Mission cable. Previous FW on the Kemper had me using the Monitor outs, but now I can send the main ours using cab sims.


    About high gain


    If you’re into extended-range and baritone guitars
    you’ll find, as I did, that the Gemini 2 handles these without any nasty
    flabbiness. I tune my baritone guitar down to ‘A’ so that my sixth
    string is the same as the third string of a bass guitar. The Gemini 2
    had absolutely no problem in reproducing that pitch cleanly at any
    volume level.


    As well as allowing you to enjoy the panorama of
    stereo effects, ping-pong echoes, Leslie emulations and the like in the
    comfort of your own home, one thing I really like about the Gemini 2’s
    stereo operation is that — if your software or hardware allows you to —
    you can run a pair of different amp/cab emulations side–by–side, which,
    to my mind, is much more useful when playing live than using a bunch of
    stereo effects.

    Have a beer and don't sneer. -CJ. Two non powered Kempers -Two mission stereo FRFR Cabs - Ditto X4 -TC electronic Mimiq.

    Edited once, last by ashtweth ().

  • For starters, @paults is dead on - if you're only playing at home, and you're happy with your monitors, there's no real reason to go for a cab of any sort.


    That said, if you do plan on jamming with friends, playing the occasional gig, whatever, it certainly won't hurt to have a cab at your disposal. The Friedman's are supposedly killer, but be aware that they are HEAVY. I think it's 60 lbs, which is heavier than my Mesa 2x12.


    If you don't have an urgent need but still want a dedicated FRFR cab, you should check out Matrix's new FR10/FR12 powered FRFR cabs. They're still on pre-order, but you could probably still get on the list (check their Facebook page). They are a little cheaper than the Friedman, but much more portable (the FR10 is basically a 12x12x12 cube with 300w of power and weighs only 21 lbs. or so). Matrix's stuff is really great at high gain scenarios as well. The Friedman, however, will look much nicer and probably be much sturdier on your backline if you decide to play out. I'm getting the FR10 for side-stage personal monitoring (when I don't have IEMs) and practices, otherwise I wouldn't own a cab at all.


    If I didn't have to lug my gear around all the time, I'd certainly opt for the Friedman though.


    Last point: FRFR is not FRFR. Your monitors are not flat. To get a perfectly flat sound out of a speaker is nearly impossible, and it takes a lot of money, time, and research and development to get closer to being flat. That's why studio monitors can cost thousands of dollars. I have a set of KRK Rokit 5's (version 1's) that I know aren't flat. They're probably on the same plane as your M8's, maybe a hair better, but I can't find specs on the version 1's to really say. Every set of monitors has their own sound, and every set will sound different. FRFR is the same - some will be boomier, some will be more "live," etc. And regardless what FRFR cab you go with, they will sound different than your monitors. If you don't plan on playing out or with friends, I'd suggest upgrading those M8's to something a little nicer and high-end - you'll get a truer representation of your tone that isn't colored, and, as an added benefit, music playback will sound better too.

    Guitars: Parker Fly Mojo Flame, Ibanez RG7620 7-string, Legator Ninja 8-string, Fender Strat & Tele, Breedlove Pro C25
    Pedalboard: Templeboards Trio 43, Mission VM-1, Morley Bad Horsie, RJM Mini Effect Gizmo, 6 Degrees FX Sally Drive, Foxpedals The City, Addrock Ol' Yeller, RJM MMGT/22, Mission RJM EP-1, Strymon Timeline + BigSky
    Stack: Furman PL-Plus C, Kemper Rack

  • Pretty cool video. I still have to wonder now if I really need a FRFR. At first I was all gung ho about it but it is pretty expensive and I'm just wondering if its really worth it for my uses. I do like the idea of a more amp in the room sound but I dont want any muddy Hi-gain tones. The Gemini looks cool.

  • The better your FRFR solution (and Studio Monitors count als FRFR solutions, too) the less of its own 'sound' it will impose on your profiles.
    The 'perfect' FRFR will bot colour the sound of your profiles at all.


    That said, and consequently , a phrase like


    but i have read high gain in the atomic CLR wedge (like metal and Djent etc) can get muddy




    is utterly wrong.

  • I have always played through cabs and pretty new to the KPA but what is the stereo for? Reverb, delay and rotary speaker? the processes signal will always be dry. Am I missing something?


    Yes, running stereo is for enjoying stereo FX in stereo

  • It really depends on what you do. Even if the FRFR seems to "color your sound" somewhat, the only way you'd know this is if you have a point of comparison. Put another way, if you are using your own home-made profiles for performance, then you might be in a good position to say this or that FRFR speaker colored your sound. However, if you use other people's profiles, either the Factory ones, rig exchange, or other commercial ones, you have no point of comparison to say a speaker has colored your sound. It comes down to how flat you assume your studio monitors are (and the room you are listening in) compared to how flat you think your FRFR cab is (in the same room). Therefore, I'd choose and tweak profiles for live performance on the speaker you will be playing in a live performance. So if you were to use a Yamaha DXR10 in concert, you may as well do your selection and tweaking of profiles for live use to sound the best on the DXR10. There's no point in choosing and tweaking on headphones or studio monitors and hoping that they translate well to your DXR10. Eliminate the middle-man.

  • This is one reason I have requested the ability to listen to just the left main output on the headphones. Because this is the sound that is going to be sent to the PA system anyway. While it doesn't matter for adjusting amp tone, for adjusting delays and reverbs, why adjust to sound good in stereo headphones when it is going to the house in mono.


    I've never understood the fascination with stereo.
    1) almost all sound guys will only give you one mic or one XLR, rendering your carefully created stereo effects largely inaccurate as you switch to using the Left main output. Those that will humor you probably are only doing a mono house mix anyway.
    2) when recording, it is better to record two separate tracks and pan L and R, with the option of different tones on each, than one stereo track. Especially since it's generally preferable to record dry and add delays and reverbs later, in which stereo effects can be added to mono tracks just as easily as stereo ones.


  • Hi Ingolf/ALL i have read from some one who mentioned that , so i was just quoting what i read. Maybe it is not noticeable in your tests, but they did write that some where :)


    Ash

    Have a beer and don't sneer. -CJ. Two non powered Kempers -Two mission stereo FRFR Cabs - Ditto X4 -TC electronic Mimiq.

  • Hello Victor,
    with the premise that all the various "FRFR" options sound different from each other as others have said, your monitors are FRFR. they differ from an "FRFR cab" because the latter is able to generate higher volumes. So a "cab" makes sense only if you plan to play loud IMO. What hence matters most IMO is how linear and transparent your loudspeaker(s) is. If you don't need high volumes, investing in a pair of better monitors might indeed be an option.


    OTOH, if you are unsure whether or not you'd like a flat tone reproduction, I'd suggest you try a so called "FR" cab, that's a cab which is linear but able to reproduce only the average frequency range a guitar cab can reproduce. In most cases - and for certain users - this is the winning solution. There is a number of options on the market, for example the Italian Red Sound.
    This way you'll have all the punch you may desire, with a certain loss in fidelity to the original profile.


    :)


    i have read high gain in the atomic CLR wedge (like metal and Djent etc) can get muddy


    Not my experience. The CLR is among the most linear options available out there, and the most linear for the money and above.
    But a room can indeed be muddy :)



    This is one reason I have requested the ability to listen to just the left main output on the headphones.


    Why not using a simple couple of stereo-to-mono-to-mono-to-stereo 1/4" (and 1/8"?) adapters, and then send Main Mono to the desk?





  • Thanks Viabcroce, you make a good point. If the only thing getting a FRFR speaker will give me is an increase in volume then maybe Im barking up the wrong tree and should just stick with my monitors I currently have. I am happy with them and my Kemper sounds amazing through them. I think maybe I will re-evaluate things and maybe get me a new guitar instead! :) I mainly use my Kemper in a recording environment so maybe I will just stick with that option for now.

  • Thanks for clearing that up Viabcroce, appreciate it, i guess that guy who reported that prob didnt realize about the room, unless we all play not hard enough Djent or metal :D (joking). Thanks man


    Ash

    Have a beer and don't sneer. -CJ. Two non powered Kempers -Two mission stereo FRFR Cabs - Ditto X4 -TC electronic Mimiq.