Kemper 4.0

  • SgtPecker,


    "Your a true cheerleader." Did you mean you're? Otherwise, I don't follow.


    But seriously why not sell your Kemper and get a helix or axefx. They're all great units. If you care about FX routing then you should switch rigs. Most of us here only care about great tone. I always get way more tone complements with my KPA than my $4000+ head.


    I look at morphing as a way to double the density of each bank. That's a big deal to me. Cheers,

  • They never said it was February 2016, AFAIK :)


    p.s. Where is my red Kemper. Want it now, I buy AXE and Helix otherwise and surpass the competition!


    Exactly, Chris Kemper said at NAMM that 4.0 will be available sometime "in February". Haven't heard anything about 2016, even this century :)

  • I'm waiting for 4.0 and was hoping for a February release, but if it's in March we're still not talking vaporware here. Like the Julio Gallo commercials about not-releasing-wine-until-it's-time, I'd rather they get it right so we don't download, depend on it, and have it riddles with bugs.


    Patience! There are lot of people working on this, many volunteers, to get it right.


    BTW, I think he should change his forum alias. While he could use a little help from his friends, he certainly isn't creating any summer of love and his posts aren't getting better.

  • to have Kemper dangle the 4.0 carrot from the NAMM podium to be released sometime in "February" only to see 3.3 with " a few fixes " yes this is very disappointing !


    So just to let me get it straight, assuming that a 4.0 will not see the light in he next 1-2 weeks:
    are you saying that Kemper are having fun of their userbase, or that they are irresponsibly making not-backed up statements?


    Might it be, as I think is the case, that something has got in the way, and their plans had to be changed at the last moment? Do you really think you are disappointed more than they are, if this is the case? Or that you will be damaged more than they will be from this delay (see what I did here?).


    If there are cheerleaders here (which I might agree with, to a point), you look to me like those soccer fans that start coursing the player (that they had since then praised and supported) who fails a penalty at a World Championship final, as if your personal disappointment was even comparable with the player's and the team's, or with the consequences they will be suffering as professionals.
    Sounds a bit egotic, doesn't it? ;)
    My pa' used to tell me "if you think you can do better, go and show them how it had to be done".


    :)

  • Dear Kemperains,


    There hasn't been a major step forward since 3.02. ......


    At 1.0 Kemper was the most significant major advancement in the history of amp modeling.


    I hang out here not for updates. and truly don't care for any update. Updates are just the icing on the cake but for amp modeling, it's impossible to get better than KPA, because for all intended purposes, it's exactly the same as the thousands of amps it models (Plus more effects) from day one or 1.0.


    Don't forget that 99% of KPA customers, buy it for the best amp modeling they're getting, effects are brilliant and musical. KPA is the closest to a perfect tube amp than any will ever get....I bought Kemper because I'm tried of pretending to be a scientist/electrical engineer and could care less for the thousands of parameters that other products offer, I want to play music not edit plethora of parameters.


    If you own a Kemper, go play a good profile and get inspired instead of the bullshit negativity and excuses.


    Blaming an amazing product for you inability to hear or play the magic until major effects are introduced is childish at best.


    One final thing that you should remember, Kemper doesn't change your tones when you update like the crappy designed competition products you speak of. I would never update if I had to rework all my patches.

    Edited 6 times, last by Dean_R ().

  • Quote

    Axe and Helix both have better routing and effects than the KPA.



    Yes, my Kemper sounds wonderful. So much so I sold my Axe FX II XL a while back. I never thought I would ever do that.
    But I somewhat agree with this statement above in specific areas, especially with the current lack of controller options and settings. 4.0 is supposed to add gobs more foot controller abilities that we do not have now. Long over due it may be, but it is coming so they say. As far as what was stated by Kemper at the end of the event and what we got, yes I can see the let down as I was also expecting more (4.0 to be exact) by the way it was stated. I also know that some times my expectations are not true reality for others (no matter the reasons why). It just wasn't soup yet even if they wanted it to be. And excuses aside, I would rather have a glitch free 4.0, and not a buggy one. 4.0 will be worth the wait.

    If you use FRFR the benefit of a merged profile is that the cabinet is totally separated in the profile.


    For my edification only... ;) Kemper/Axe-FX III/ Quad Cortex user

    Edited 2 times, last by spikey ().

  • well seems like you settled down a bit pepper
    moving towards happy.
    now put up with the inevitable remarks you will get from that other post.
    ignore it, keep moving to happy. trust me, it is always worth it
    what do you think the kpa team might be doing right now?
    and you are exaggerating the concept of a promise, and the free update.
    do you think they are slackers?
    leading edge programming is not easy, most gurrus would tell you you cant get 3 women to have a
    baby in 3 months. is that the same as you cant triple stamp a double stamp?
    why are you so obsessed with exact release dates?
    first world problems..
    nobody here is particularly worried about timing
    but there is a kind of understanding that something kick ass is in the works.


    also read my post about kpa prrice increases. it actually went up again here, mebbe a day or 2 b4 i posted, or would be uber cool if it was while i wrote that post. and all the major stores an chains here have no stock, mebbe some have online only, prolly low batch, b4 this was 60 day wait. dont think there is any problem with customers...


    Axe and Helix both have better routing and effects than the KPA


    You can have better routing on a kpa, just get a drill, some y cables and toggle switches. a few pimped out vu meters never hurt..
    or get an interface etc...its not a very good comparison kpa was designed to sound good, not multi amp, well you can easily with 2
    so don't complain if prices go up and you waited...


    SgtPecker,


    "Your a true cheerleader." Did you mean you're?


    betrayed by the spell checker that you blamed.... :P


    just put it out of your mind. cheerleaders are hot... dallas has a rep for some stunningly beautiful women... hmm wonder what male to female ratio is here...
    some sites come off as an angry sausagefest, gets weird...


    and one more thing, processor power has been used as a gimmick for decades to sell pc's or anything else, it's a few simple numbers for simple ppl, but only a melted bit of sand without code. s/n leakage @ 10 nm has been the obstacle for a while now. you could use this waiting time to learn more about processors, their architecture, bus rates, tons of stuff.


    and keep working towards happy, you are getting there..

  • That last point I will give an Amen too!
    One minor thing however...
    If all the firmware after 3.02 has been plagued with unpredictable anomalies that seem hard to re-create or find a viable solution for...
    What makes you believe for one second that 4.0 if we see it in any of our lifetimes is not going to carry with it more of the same unpredicable things that has paralyzed any meaning progress...


    I have said and I will say it one last time so that it is easy to understand ...


    I too like everyone else in this forum purchased the KPA for the same reason. The Preamp!
    Undeniably one of the best in the planet.
    But there are others playing in the same sandbox that provide a good tone and feel as well. The KPA has the single edge up in the cloning department. If you guys wanted to embelish that attribute the logical extension would be distortion pedal cloning.
    But I digress....
    Instead of beating down on me for pointing the obvious ... Why not offer an insight into what is comming and where the team is at achieving the goals. Btw your news page says sometime in the middle of Febuary ... Yes you are correct no mention of what year that will be....


    Anyway I really dont expect any great revelations from Kemper anytime soon.


    Yes I will continue to use the KPA for the preamp and most likely get something for effects... Just hoped Kemper would have stepped up their game or at the very least made some meaningful upgrade releases.
    But they are "Free" after all....
    You got what you paid for.... Be grateful the all might Kemper allowed you to purchase such awesomeness!


    I think that pretty much sums up the Kemper philisophy and pretty much everyone's comments.


    I bought the Kemper for the Awesome tone!


    Who cares if it has subpar effects and it crashes every now and then and does inexplcable things when you least expect it to and loses high end , locks up .....


    All you gotta do is restart it wait over a minute and then you might be ready to get that awesome tone back ... But wait it gets better.
    With every new release your previous performance presets get trashed and then you have to redo them all again ... Yeah that's awesome too...


    Wow it looks promising ....
    I'll stick with 3.02 and deal with only a few digital demons...


    3.02 is as good as the KPA will ever be and it will be years until they work the bugs out of a remote they should have never done. As a result nothing will move forward. It wont be until they release a second generation design that any other advancements will be realized.


    That is the unfortunant truth. So all you guys who bought this thinking it was going to evolve are going feel a little sick when this comes to pass. So your Abosolutely right ..,,
    You better have laid your money down for the Pre-amp cloning algorithm and like it because that's as good as this piece of hardware is going to get.


    So you can all trash me ...


    But wait until you find out that I'm right! PT Barnum was right!


    Cheers!
    Good day!

  • One last tis bit.....
    Nice marketing goobly gok!
    Maybe you should understand the difference
    Between MIPS and MFLOPS .
    Advantages of 32bit floating point vs 24 bit fixed point as it pertains to headroom double percussion filtering all that stuff you seemed to have missed.


    Using a Linux based MCU was not a real good choice. How long has this product been out and your programmers can't cut the fat out of the initialization process. So much for the STATE machine approach.... Geeeeez


    But let's not get to technical here ... The kids are listening....

  • I never realized how f$#@ed-up real amps are to sound like a lowly linux based MCU running millions of lines of assembler at an effective tube simulation sampling rate of 700 kHz.


    Makes you wonder how this whole tube amp thing got off the ground. Other units should sound double plus better than real!

  • Well, it turns out my post was too long! Board said it had to be less than 10 000 characters, so I've split it into two parts.


    Part 1

    ... Yes may be I could have stated my case more elegantly.


    Understatement of the year so far IMHO.


    There hasn't been a major step forward since 3.02.


    You're right. Pure Cab™ is useless. That's why most of us use and love it.


    I am not a troll.


    ... but you act like one. If it walks / talks / smells / acts like an X, it is an X. You're familiar with the saying?


    A small but pertinent example:


    Could it be my fellow Kemperians that the hardware lacks the memory and processing power to meet the challenge?


    The only folk who've specifically attempted to call into question the Kemper's processing power here in this forum, and elsewhere for that matter, have been FAS fanbois. This statement alone adds weight to the second of the two personages I proposed you might embody: A plant, specifically a FAS one.


    In case you hadn't noticed, the processing power has been sufficient to handle 4 years' worth of FW updates which included additional EQs and Pure Cab™ amongst other things. If the CPU was already being squeezed these things would not have been possible to implement safely (stability wise), or even at all. Add to the four-years' worth of updates the more than 10 new delays we're going to get... and then there's morphing, which'll allow smooth interpolation between two sets of parameters, the number of which is limited only by the range available on the unit.


    I hope you're able to see the futility and inaccuracy of your claim; FAS fanbois typically can't, trolls can't, but can you? If you love the amp-profile/ing aspect of the unit, perhaps there's room for a little appreciation of all the sauce that keeps being laid on, free of charge, by the Gods of Kemper™?


    Yeah, I know, I sound like a fanboi myself, but you know what? I don't see myself as one even 'though I often joke about it. Rather, I believe I'm quite simply a call-it-like-it-is, fair-minded, appreciative customer who's been blown away both by the capabilities of this thing as well as the fact that I've been lucky enough to own one. You might well call me an Appreciboi, and I think that'd be fair, although nobody'd understand what the Hell you were talking about. LOL


    What I'm attempting to do here, in effect (pun intended), is encourage you to reassess your position. I believe you made an uber-wise choice to buy one, and that your decision will continue to be rewarded in the fullness of time. While you endure the "excruciating" wait for the (in your case) much-needed 4.0 FW update, why not upgrade to 3.1.4 or later and marvel at the possibilities that Pure Cab™ offers? In my case it made countless previously-too-phasey-and-suffocated-sounding rigs eminently usable; there's bound to be something in it for you. If you're not motivated to do the update, I believe the feature was available in Artist Mode™ on your 3.0.2 FW.


    I am a KPA owner that expected Kemper to live up to their claims.


    How about an example of where the company didn't? Even if you can find one, I'll bet examples of such a nature are smothered out of all relevance by the weight of worthwhile features, both requested and otherwise, that have constituted worthwhile value-adding from the user's, and I suspect the company's points of view.


    The problem is that in all other areas the Axe and the Helix excell. I would like Kemper to surpass them!


    100% agree with you here, Sarge.

  • Part 2

    That's all... Don't promise a world you can't deliver on.


    Lucky for Kemper then that the company has delivered in spades. It's a whole new world... for most of us.


    We all own a very expensive cloning Pre-amp that does that one thing wonderfully and should be grateful for any other improvements If they ever come to pass...


    ... which they do and will continue to do so.


    I guess I just have to get used to settling for less.


    Been there for 20 years. Bye bye, Line 6. I'm sure you'd be welcomed with open, modelled arms were you to grace their bank accounts with your presence. Be prepared to pay for additional amp models to enhance the paltry number on offer 'though...


    Best regards...


    Same to you, mate. I hope you can see that I mean no harm here... or ever. I was just initially shocked at how negative your attitude towards the company as well as your unit was.


    I've therefore attempted to respond, since you re-entered the fray and lessened the probability that you''re a troll with some conciliatory statements, which I and others would've appreciated, but the way, in the only logical, good-natured way I believe to be appropriate - to hopefully "guide" you back to a space where you're able to enjoy a new-found appreciation for the beast you've plunked your hard-earned dosh down on.


    One minor thing however...


    If all the firmware after 3.02 has been plagued with unpredictable anomalies that seem hard to re-create or find a viable solution for...


    What makes you believe for one second that 4.0 if we see it in any of our lifetimes is not going to carry with it more of the same unpredicable things that has paralyzed any meaning progress...


    Considering the number of units in use out there, along with the fact that most who experience glitches (and get them quickly sorted out) post their experiences in the forum, one can only conclude that your use of terms like "plagued" and "paralysed" is seriously over the top.


    Once again: Reassess. Is that glass half-empty? In fact, it's damned-near full. You're starting from an ill-determined base that assumes it's either half-full or half-empty.


    I too like everyone else in this forum purchased the KPA for the same reason. The Preamp!


    Undeniably one of the best in the planet.


    Incorrect. It's the best digital one out there, and has been for four years.


    But there are others playing in the same sandbox that provide a good tone and feel as well.


    Well, there's "good" and there's... the best. Which do you want?


    Instead of beating down on me for pointing the obvious ... Why not offer an insight into what is comming and where the team is at achieving the goals.


    Firstly, you're not pointing out the obvious; you've been making hyperbolic, sweeping generalisations which have been firmly rooted in negativity. Chin up, brother!


    Secondly, this insight you seek is information only insiders could possibly know. Who are you, or who is any of us for that matter, to demand access to Kemper's road map or progress reports on how the Team™ is faring? Fairdinkum mate, I'm at a loss for words as to how to properly address this request of yours, so I'll fall back on today's ol' faithful: Reassess... and in this case, reassess again.


    Anyway I really dont expect any great revelations from Kemper anytime soon.


    I have no doubt. That, my friend, is the essence of the bone of contention you're experiencing with us, and why we're persisting with answering you. If I may speak for most of us: We're having difficulty understanding the negative outlook, both retrospectively and speculatively, that you've expounded regarding the product and the company. If it were not so exquisitely the antithesis of what we've come to believe and expect, you'd have been "left well-alone". I'm guessing you can see this.


    Yes I will continue to use the KPA for the preamp and most likely get something for effects... Just hoped Kemper would have stepped up their game or at the very least made some meaningful upgrade releases.


    Once again: Re-examine. Try Pure Cab™.


    You say, "... stepped up their game". Interesting. Was it that bad that it needed "stepping up"? If the success brought about by the toaster and rack is a product of playing a sub-par game, I'd like to see what happens to its world's-best products when the company gets its shit together and plays to win...


    But they are "Free" after all....


    You got what you paid for.... Be grateful the all might Kemper allowed you to purchase such awesomeness!


    Agreed, and I think most of us are; it's you we're worried about! LOL (Just ribbin' ya).


    I bought the Kemper for the Awesome tone!!


    ... and you got it, brother!


    Who cares if it has subpar effects and it crashes every now and then and does inexplcable things when you least expect it to and loses high end , locks up .....


    Easy answer: All of us would... were that the case.


    3.02 is as good as the KPA will ever be and it will be years until they work the bugs out of a remote they should have never done. As a result nothing will move forward. It wont be until they release a second generation design that any other advancements will be realized.


    Every single one of those hyperbolic, worst-case-scenario speculations is without question over the top.


    You will be proved wrong on all counts. Why not save yourself the indignity and try to enjoy what you have, as others and I have suggested? It's great already, it will continue to improve, and for practically all of us, considering that it's starting from a base of being the world's best, this is truly a Godsend and more than we'd have reasonably expected.


    Bottom Line: We're pleasantly-surprised, whereas you're disappointingly-underwhelmed.


    The Cure: I think you know my prescription by now - reassess. Try Pure Cab™... and chillax, brother!


    There is hope, man. Seriously.


    So you can all trash me ...


    You've got guts. I respect that man. This is why I chose to take a step-by-step, measured and non-derisive approach to addressing your concerns this time.


    Hang in there. It should be worth it. The glass is near-brimming!

  • Sure man .... And if and when the Kemper Sun shines... Not only will I publicly take back my diatribe but I'll spring for beer and pizza for the Kemper programming team .... Maybe my intentions and motives are greatly misunderstood . I do want Kemper to be the overall best piece of gear in its class. What I have seen is more effort being placed on the footcontroler and less excluding Pure Cab which is present in 3.02 Which I do appreciate but it seems for the most part the core of the product is being severly neglected. That being said .... You say 4.0 will be worth the wait so until the fat Kemper Lady has sung .
    Cheers

  • Sure man .... And if and when the Kemper Sun shines... Not only will I publicly take back my diatribe but I'll spring for beer and pizza for the Kemper programming team .... Maybe my intentions and motives are greatly misunderstood . I do want Kemper to be the overall best piece of gear in its class. What I have seen is more effort being placed on the footcontroler and less excluding Pure Cab which is present in 3.02 Which I do appreciate but it seems for the most part the core of the product is being severly neglected. That being said .... You say 4.0 will be worth the wait so until the fat Kemper Lady has sung .
    Cheers


    Do you want Christoph Kemper to come over and give you a hug? Because, I think you need one.

  • Tritium wrote:
    " Do you want Christoph Kemper to come over and give you a hug? Because, I think you need one."


    Sorry guys can't pass this one up! Just a bloody quip!


    " No but there's something else he can do for me ! "


    Forgive me for I have Kemperaniously sinned.

  • Despite the angst coming from SgtPepper... I can't say I wholly disagree with his points.


    The Kemper is built from a small team. They're not backed by a big corporation like Yamaha (Line 6) or haven't been in the game nearly as long as Fractal.


    If you look at the history of Line 6, they came out with the AxSys 20 years ago. A few years later, the Ax2 212 came out. There was a Flextone and the original POD that came out within a few years of their debut. They were all more-or-less based on the same code sets. And what they built changed digital guitar amplification forever. However, if you look at those products, they are nowhere near as complex (or realistic sounding) as the Kemper, the AxeFX w/ Quantum, or the Helix.


    It took Fractal another 10 years before they came out, with tons of time for research and development. I don't know for sure how much time Cliff put into building out the original units, but what I do know is he had 10 years to figure out what worked. And, guess what? The Fractal is still issuing out firmware updates and new models to this day. The original Axe was pretty good for it's time, but no better than Line 6 units as far as tone is concerned.


    Kemper, despite some of its downsides (and yes, there are downsides) didn't come out as "the one tool to replace them all." CK wanted to build the best amp sounds in the world captured by one unit. And it has always been promoted as a platform that will grow, not a "here's your three trillion types of delays that 70 developers spent the greater part of a year working on, though you'll never use it." It's always been spending time to get the sounds done right the first time, in a unique and user friendly way. And CK came out of the gate with guns blazing - to the degree that it has made other companies have to step up their game as far as tonal quality is concerned.


    At this point, the Kemper provides great sounds, and great effects. However, it's not designed as an all-in-one crazy routing multi-effects machine. It's designed as a great amplifier. The effects are secondary. People have become spoiled with having every option in one box, so people like SgtPepper get incredibly upset over the lack of what might be considered "good and usable" out of a box that wasn't designed to do all of that. I do understand the frustration, because we've all come to expect everything in one box, myself included. I still use outboard effects with the Kemper, but it's because it's a great amp and a great platform, and the effects I need aren't available on the unit. To me, that's OK. To others, that might be unacceptable. And, if you value effects and an all-in-one more for your more complex rig, then perhaps the Kemper is not the tool for you. And that's OK too.


    I've certainly considered swapping out the Kemper for the AxeFX or the Helix. However, when I think about this, my decision is made:

    • All Line 6 products become "old" very quickly - will that happen to this as well? No more support after a few years because there's a "Helix 2?" The Kemper's been around for about 5 years now, and it's still perfectly capable on that 24-bit chip. Sounds just as good as the competition. Throwing more horsepower at something doesn't necessarily make it better.
    • The same thing applies for Fractal's stuff. By the time people figure out the nuances of the units, there's a new unit.
    • Both the Helix's and the AxeFX's firmware updates change the sound of your presets, amps, etc. The Kemper's sounds don't change. Personally, I don't want to reconfigure all of my sounds every time I update the firmware.

    So is the Kemper perfect? No. But I do understand the frustration. I do understand the bugs with the newer firmware versions, but, hey, if it has no benefit to you, don't upgrade the firmware, plain and simple. You don't have to be rocking out beta software (beta means it probably will have bugs!) or the most recent version to use the unit. If you're that impatient for firmware updates, head over to Fractal. They'll have new firmware upgrades for you to toy around and new bugs to find with nearly every other week. In the Kemper world, it's about every couple months - sometimes longer, sometimes shorter. But I guarantee that Fractal has 10x the development staff, and this stuff is not easy to program. Spend 5 minutes seeing what these guys are doing and you'll never want to get near a computer again.


    And while we won't be getting delays in 4.0 (for those that haven't seen, we aren't, it's coming as a later firmware upgrade), that's OK too. I'm personally more excited about delays (and eventually reverbs) than morphing, though I can certainly appreciate it. And if 4.0 comes out later than February, so what? It's just software, and I'd rather have it right and ready than buggy and in my live unit. It is developed by people, humans, who are prone to error, and I guarantee you the guys at Kemper are working hard to make sure the Kemper performs as perfectly as it can. But sometimes something gets missed - it happens. I'd rather wait and have a quality 4.0 than an incomplete and buggy 4.0.

    Guitars: Parker Fly Mojo Flame, Ibanez RG7620 7-string, Legator Ninja 8-string, Fender Strat & Tele, Breedlove Pro C25
    Pedalboard: Templeboards Trio 43, Mission VM-1, Morley Bad Horsie, RJM Mini Effect Gizmo, 6 Degrees FX Sally Drive, Foxpedals The City, Addrock Ol' Yeller, RJM MMGT/22, Mission RJM EP-1, Strymon Timeline + BigSky
    Stack: Furman PL-Plus C, Kemper Rack