Starting a debate about RE uploading policy

    Hi guys,


    I would like to start a (mini) debate about the RE upload policy. So, try to imagine:


    "I've some awesome profiles tweaked a lot to nail the Metallica black album tone:
    for JH:
    - Crunch (mesa mark II+C based) with a lot of EQ before and after the amp + a touch of reverb
    - Sitar sound of the Wherever intro- boosted crunch + reverb for Nothing else solo


    For KH:
    - Dirty clean for unforgiven cleans- Boosted lead + tweaked wha for its solo (with delay and reverb)
    - pitch shifter/harmonizer for Friends of Misery solo "


    Unfortunately, I've never profiled an amp by myself. Grabbing some, swapping cab, tweaking parameters, adding FX, ... I spent sometime hours to tweak these to achieve (from my point of view ;) ) an amazing result. But i've no way to share them. It is even worst because i probably mixed commercial parts, sometimes just an amp, sometime just the cab.


    Sometime you can find on this forums guys who list the parameters of their FX they add (EQ, ...) and then, you can make the same on your kemper. This is a non-sense with a digital device :(


    I think this is the point why the Kemper's FXs are so underrated. There is no easy way to share tweaked profiles or FX. The only way is :
    - saving your stomp section and or effect section
    - make a backup
    - extract the presets
    - posting them


    So others can
    - download them
    - putting to a USB key
    - importing them
    - selecting the preset for stomps and/or effect ...


    And, ... doh!, it sounds like sh*t ... Of course, i tweaked them for a profile i cannot share.


    I know there is no easy way to manage this situation. So, i would like to know if the guys who profile and share their profile would be bother than others repost a tweaked version of their profiles (as far as i know, the author of the profile (amp and cab) stay unchanged).
    And of course, i would like to ask the same question to the commercial profile authors.

    What copyright and who is infringing it?
    Lately all the commercial profilers had changed the profiles names because they are sensing some type
    of agitated status of the amp builder industry (try to figure out what profiles are selling ampsound !!!!).
    There are pro profilers who do not make DI profiles !!! (guess why?)
    All of us who paid for their profiles RESPECTED their work by not sharing them but not because some copyright matter which does not exist! That implies IMHO that the same respect goes to the kemper community!And if you have a kid or grownup who is capable to tweak a commercial profile and make it a better sounding profile you have to be proud of it and not try to block it because the final profile is DIFFERENT from the previous and its not a COPY (see copyright deffinition).
    The best U2 profiles I have are those made by Viabcroce but you have to buy a TAF pack to play them
    (reverse copyright).That means that some spooky interpretation of legal terminology will prevent the
    kemperists to tweak commercial profiles and share them!
    I think it is possible to reach a gentlemans agreement whith a commercial seller.All you have to do is inform him and made public his answer.

    Quote from viabcroce

    The next logical step would be to allow presets management from within RM... and possibly RE.


    Yes, but just FX is only a part of the sound. Achieving a good tone = starting for a good profile, tweaking it eventually and add FXs. This is the whole stuff i would like to share of the RE

    You can already share whole rigs... when you save a rig it keeps all the "stomps" and "fx" you decided to use, and you can upload it as such.


    Of course you can't do it with commercial rigs, but this is something completely different...


    What am I missing?


    :)

    Are you sure about this? Pretty sure from my part that free rigs have been used for creating new material all the time.
    OTOH, the "copyright" issue is honoured nevertheless, because you always see the original tagging.
    Things are of course different for commercial rigs.


    Anyway, if this was an actual and critical issue, I am positive someone would gladly "sacrifice" a single rig of theirs to be used as a "universal fx shuttle" by everyone. Maybe a factory rig? ;)

    I think it's a little hypocritical for profile creators to be angry about their work being copied, when creating a profile by definition is copying a real amp (albeit with the profiler's micing technique)

    Let's avoid commercial profiles... For me rig exchange is not "profile exchange", so I don't see why anybody couldn't post rigs made from 3rd part free profiles. The tweaked rig would have to put his name as the rig author (and keep the original amp and cab author). For instance I want all the rigs with me as author to be 100% accurate with the vision I want to give.

    One way to achieve this would be to have a curated collection. Tweakers would submit tweaked profiles to the curator who hosts them. Commercial producers could either agree to donate the underlying profile if they created it and get some acknowledgement/exposure OR agree to sell it to users who don't already own if for a modest sum.


    Users who already own the profile ( a minoity for sure) would then only be acquiring the tweaked version and the tweakers could donate their work or charge a nominal sum. At present this is a stumbling block of sorts because it would not always be so simple to prove that you are a legit owner - sending a copy of the source profile or providing email proof of purchase would both be possible ways and a cooperating vendor could confirm the license of a particular user I guess.


    The revenue obtained from selling from this collection could be shared among creative contributors and support the site.


    The basic idea of producing state of the art tweaked sounds is what the whole synth and sampler business runs on. Third parties sell banks of tweaked presets and they are often among the best available. Not being able to exploit the creative energies of this community to the full is definitely a shortcoming of things as they are - as the original poster has pointed out. Worth thinking about IMO.

    there are really two topics here.
    I don't think the sharing of meaningfully different rigs on the basis of free profiles is a problem - simply contact the original author and ask their permission. Most people are glad when their work is appreciated. It should be a meaningful, musical difference though, not just adding a delay etc.


    about the whole commercial debate - please open a new thread in the Third Party Rigs Discussion, if you need clarification, although I don't get it really. You don't share commercial rigs.
    please read the seller's terms and conditions or EULA


    thread moved to Free Rigs and Profiles, no more discussion of commercial rigs here, please


    thanks