If I wanted to start recording at home as a hobbyist, what would you personally recommend?

  • The title says it all. Maybe this has been covered elsewhere. The idea is to find out what others do and how they get on with what they've got.
    I'm at the stage where I'd just like to record what funky stuff comes from my fingers and we'll see what happens next. It'd be great just to point me in the right direction. Don't worry about budget.
    Thanks :)

  • Hello,


    You'll obviously need a good spdif audio card, I use a Roland quad capture which is excellent so far.


    Then, you want to start with a good DAW : they are plenty of 'em and each one has its qualities. Are you on PC or mac ?


    On PC, I mostly use reaper & riffworks for the demo, riffworks is an old app but super easy to use and very straightforward. You'll be recording and layering tracks 5 minutes after installing. There is a a free 4 track version that is excellent to try the soft (with it's great drumbox).


    For more complex works, reaper &EZ drummer match for a very good combo, you can still add keys or strings with other quality VST later (you'll need a midi or USB controller )


    You don't need more to do some simple or even complex songs , the bass for instance can be played on a regular guitar , like a strat, with the KPA octaver.

  • As Waraba said:
    A good Audio Card. This card should have the following features:
    - Inputs, Inserts and Outputs as much as you need
    - Depending on future requests and your existing hardware (PC or MAC) a firewire or USB connection
    - S/PDIF (for me very important to use reamping with Kemper)
    - Midi
    I'm using the MBOX Pro Interface at the moment. Before that i had an M-Audio 1814 (which was good enough).
    As DAW i use REASON.
    I would recommend to spend more money on a good Audio Card and look for a free Version of a DAW.
    While making music with a free DAW you will notice which features you are missing and then you can decide
    better which DAW is suitable for YOU.
    But before we continue gessing your future equipment it would be interesting to hear what you already have:
    Computer, Speaker etc.

  • An issue which you also should not forget is that 0db-analogue(VU) is a little bit different in the digital world(dbfs).Take a look into some tutorials about this issue.My approach is to record on my DAWs -18db to -12db while peak should not get further than -6db.Sounds "better",more "headroom" doing the mixing and many more reasons which becaome more important as your recording at home improves during the next years.

  • An issue which you also should not forget is that 0db-analogue(VU) is a little bit different in the digital world(dbfs).Take a look into some tutorials about this issue.My approach is to record on my DAWs -18db to -12db while peak should not get further than -6db.Sounds "better",more "headroom" doing the mixing and many more reasons which becaome more important as your recording at home improves during the next years.

    Headroom is not that much of an issue these days as DAW's that have a floating point mixer eg ProTools 12 which is 32bit float is near enough impossible to clip. I'm on ProTools 10 HD which is 48bit fixed and even this is quite hard to clip internally. Its more important to not clip the converters, but hey this is way to off topic and to involved for just jamming at home, but worth knowing nether the less :)

  • @Raoul


    Ofcourse you are right.I just wanted to say that there is a difference between 0db in the analogoue/digital world and I still believe that anyone who starts with recording should at least have "heard of it"..cant be a bad thing. ;)

  • @Raoul


    Ofcourse you are right.I just wanted to say that there is a difference between 0db in the analogoue/digital world and I still believe that anyone who starts with recording should at least have "heard of it"..cant be a bad thing. ;)


    oh yes its defo good to know, an analog to digital newbie may try and record as hot as possible as thats how they used to do.

  • In addition to the other items: A MIDI keyboard to play some chords/drums is very useful. I'm currently bying another one to controll my DAW on the sofa. I found this, which lets you have a good accsess to many DAW parameters:


    http://www.thomann.de/de/reloo…rch_rslt_reloop_328450_14


    I'm using Cubase Elements, which is a cheap version that has everything you need to start recording. I was on a full but old version before, and went for Elements as I do anything else but the recording itself with external plugins. Works great!

    Gear: Strats & KPA. Plug Ins: Cubase, NI, iZotope, Slate, XLN, Spectrasonics.
    Music: Song from my former band: vimeo.com/10419626[/media][/media][/media] Something new on the way...

  • @Raoul23 @waraba @Nikos @hal2000 thanks for your input guys! I really appreciate that. :)


    I'm thinking of budget 2000 Euros max if I can still use my iMac for the DAW.
    That Roland Quad capture looks good for 200 Eurodollars
    I might have a look at the KRK 8 active monitors. They seem to be quite useful.
    I have an oldish Yamaha mixer 4 (8) track, a D7 mike and a Roene studio mic with valve preamp. The DAW might make the mixer obsolete... unless I want to mix something down beforehand...


    :thumbup:

  • It depends on a few things.


    1) Do you like the engineering side of things (learning curves to new plugins, DAWs, computers, solving driver issues, dealing with frozen screens & reboots, wires, lots of separate gear (audio card or interface, perhaps an external mixer) etc, etc, etc, etc, etc
    2) Or are you interested in just recording your stuff, you're a musician, want to get your ideas down. Then look for an All-in-one digital DAW.


    The advantages of an all-in-one is they are not your computer (which has servers to handle every situation) so they are dedicated to doing one thing: recording your music. They have a learning curve, but it's ONE learning curve. You CAN still get tape, but digital is best. They are going the way of the dinosaurs so they are the cheapest solution on craigslist or eBay etc.


    I think it would be best to get an all-in-one hardware DAW, like an AKAI DPS, or Roland V or VS something, or Yamaha AW16. This way you can just lay your tracks with total ease. Then if their plugins are good enough, you are done and can often just burn to CD. BUT if you want to go further, you can then port your WAV files over to a computer, get Reaper (cheap and a good start) and then introduce yourself to the world of computer based recording. which his a total pain in the f$#@ ass. But yields the best results short of a dedicated system.


    You'll have to deal with plugin, and dongles, and licensing, and the learning curve of your software DAW (which is way more steep than a hardware DAW) and deal with engineering frustrations as a normal part of your work flow.


    To give you a prime example. You want to record a song you have in your head:


    Scenario 1:
    Hardware DAW - You turn in on. Setup your microphone to it's internal preamp, set your levels, choose your track, and record. Choose your next track, record. choose your next track, record. You can lay down a drum machine beat, guitar, vocal, bass in about 30m to an hour. Then you can go back and fine tune each part and add more if you want a better production. Mixing is pretty simple considering you can use hardware knobs to set your pan levels, effect levels, and physical sliders (sometimes mechanical for higher end ones) and physical transport. All this costs about $300-1200


    Software DAW - You turn on your computer. You open your DAW. It complains it can't find your plugin license. That's right, you forgot to put your dongle in your diminishing USB ports. It complains again, where are your WAVES plugins?!? Stupid you, open up waves plugin manager and download those licenses. You open up your drum software, it tells you that you didn't register on THIS computer, so you have to log online and un-register your old computer and re-register the new one. Good, now you're good to roll. So you look through your MIDI library for drum tracks, but the one you are thinking of isn't there. So you go online looking for some MIDI drum patters similar to what you want. You buy that, login to Paypal, download, install. You have to restart your drum software to be able to see the new MIDI files. Ok, now you build your drum track. But you aren't hearing it? So you sort out how your DAW sends stuff to you Audio Interface which has its OWN software mixer (and learning curve) and you see the meter jumping but you don't hear anything, oh, yeah, you forgot to turn on you monitor, oh shit, you plugged your monitors in backwards, change the leads so left is left side, ok good. Now you want to record your guitar. You have to test record a few times because you gotta set your Audio Mixer's volume level, then your DAW's input volume level. Not hearing anything? You didn't setup your DAW for INPUT1 on your audio interface! Go do that. Ok, now you hear your guitar. Record guitar. I can go on and one about the learning curve of DAWs, and the cost of all this is in the THOUSANDS of dollars.


    In fact, to get a setup similar to a $1200 Akai DPS 24, you'd have to spend about $5000 for a PC, Audio Interface, Daw, extra wires, and external physical controller (if you don't want to choose everything by mouse only)


    I think you get the point. So all-in-one = fun and cheap solutions. PC/Mac = frustrating and expensive but eventually more professional.


    Summary: Get an all in one, keep the fun rolling, and dip your feet into PC/Mac DAW's by porting your Hardware DAW files for Mixing/Mastering to get your feet wet. When you are ready for a PC, then you'll sell your hardware DAW (and forever regret losing the fun factor)

  • @db9091 thanks for that! :thumbup:


    Sounds like you've really been through the PC/Mac mangle... :huh:


    Yes, the idea is just to have fun with a few friends from time to time.
    I might just jingle a little with Garage Band until I feel comfortable with the hardware idea.
    At the moment my playing doesn't really merit a large investment in gear if I use an SPIDF unit and a Mac. I have many different music sources including a Yamaha SY99 (remember those?) which I can use for Drum input and other background stuff. So an A/D D/A converter would help meet many requirements.
    Stay cool... :)

  • ahah excellent story db, i can feel the pain , it's so true ;)


    that's the reason (no joke ;) why I still love and use almost daily my good old trusty riffworks on PC, it's a simple emulation of a 4 track recorder , drumbox , EQ & FX box , all in one and with a cool & easy ogg or Wav rendering. it usually takes no more than half an hour to record a cool demo like this one from absolute scratch (including choosing a guitar, tuning , then setup a great profile, recording & layering ideas,panning, mixing, rendering,uploading).


    It's very important to get instant recording capability or you might lose/cut a good flow of ideas while noodling around or testing new profiles. I cannot count the number of times where I was inspired to write a new track just by testing new profiles , If I didn't have access to such a simple DAW, I wouldn't have written all my stuff ( like 70 tracks).


    Garageband might be the equivalent on mac, but I never used it.



  • With all respect I would like to disagree :) :


    This is actually what it was - a few years ago. But things became easier. It's software - of course you have to register your license. I am currently working on a very old machine, but I have done a complete CD with this one using latest plug ins. It's a question of organising workflows. Nevertheless, my pc is getting old, hence my search for a new (mobile) solution - thanks for participating in that thread by the way.


    Regarding the installation process: Once done, it works fluently these days. All my hardware was plug & play. All manufactures of plugins offer great support in case of any trouble shooting.
    Regarding the costs (me as an example):Desktop PC: 650€ - Audio Interface: 250€ - DAW Controller: 250€ - MIDI Keyboard: 150€ - Software 2000€ (but that's me) = 3300€.


    But:
    Considering a computer is already existing and the plugins that come with any DAW today are good enough to start with, a dedicated DAW controller not needed and adding the price for my DAW you're down to about 500€.


    And the advantages would be: Expandable. Not necessarily getting old and redundant if the joy of recording own music continues as the system can grow with you.


    While I've been through many nights solving the problems you mentioned, I am glad to say that 99% of my stuff works fluently these days.

    Gear: Strats & KPA. Plug Ins: Cubase, NI, iZotope, Slate, XLN, Spectrasonics.
    Music: Song from my former band: vimeo.com/10419626[/media][/media][/media] Something new on the way...

  • OK, you're saying that you want to "start recording as a hobbyist and see where it goes". I think that's a very good idea.


    My advice:
    use your iMac and GarageBand. Great starting point. It's not a professional DAW, but MORE than adequate to start futzing around and learning the basics. Your learning curve at this point is not going to be any better by getting a "professional" daw and third-party plugins. Start simple so you can learn fast. It has the awesome "Drummer" function as well, so you're covered for drums, as well as other virtual instruments.


    Money might not be an issue, but it just doesn't make sense to go out and buy a bunch of crap - you'll just end up researching instead of playing. So start simple, and STAY simple for as long as it makes sense.


    What you do need:


    An audio interface
    A couple have already been suggested. SPDIF is NOT essential, but can make for a slightly simpler workflow. You can go cheaper if you want to.


    Headphones
    If you're going to be recording vocals, I'd go with some closed-back headphones to eliminate bleed. Open-back headphones generally sound more natural, but the mic will pick up the track playing from the headphones, which is not ideal.
    One recommendation from me: KRK KNS-8400. FARILY flat, good isolation.


    Potentially monitors
    These can come later - you don't have to buy them right away. You don't need them when you're just starting out, and still learning the very basics.
    On the other hand, if you prefer to listen "in the room" rather than on headphones while playing, these might be more of a priority.


    With monitors and given your situation, you can go one of two ways:
    1) Get a cheap but workable set, and take them as far as you can. No sense in buying expensive monitoring for hobby level.
    2) Get more expensive, flatter speakers. No sense in buying cheap speakers first only to have to buy a better set a short time later.


    These arguments are in opposition, but both are sensible.


    For semi-professional stuff, good monitoring is and ESSENTIAL component - they're what you judge EVERYTHING by. That's the single most important piece of a studio. When I say "monitoring", I'm not just talking about the monitors themselves, I'm talking about the room response as well. Don't get a fairly expensive set of monitors and place them in a room with resonance issues (ANY untreated room). Be prepared to spend more on room treatment than the monitors themselves, or spending the time going the DIY route with fiberglass, cloth covers and building frames, not to mention a bit of research (and it still might end up being as expensive as the monitors). That kind of goes with the territory with GOOD monitoring. If you're not going to be treating the room, making the sacrifices necessary with monitor and listening position placement (which can eat up a lot of square meters), using a room with decent dimensions etc etc etc, then get the CHEAP monitors.


    You'll have to decide on a monitor size as well. 5 inch speakers are not too big, but are USUALLY not very impressive to listen to when playing through then (at least for the "not-breaking-the-bank"-options). 8 inch speakers, however, are BIG. Given space available (and your acceptance of imposing speakers and bad feng shui), find the optimum for your situation.


    Be sure to visit a music store and listen to a bunch with some music you know well and like the sound of..


    I believe in smart investments. Don't overbuy. Conversely, don't "buy cheap and buy often" either.
    In your particular situation, I'd advise you to buy cheap INITIALLY. Get the basic setup, and see where it goes from there. Live with it for a year or two. If you find after that time you're still into recording, you can move up. The proof is in how much time you're spending actually recording vs. how much time you're researching new gear. If the balance is to the latter, you don't need new gear PERIOD :-).


    A few words of caution:
    People will almost always recommend what they already have (r even what they for some nebulous reason would like to have), even if you're really specific about your situation, experience and needs. You need to weed out the bad advice from the good advice.
    When learning this stuff, it's common to watch videos or read stuff online. Cultivate a selective blindness to anything gear related when watching/reading stuff. People will say stuff like "my mixes translate so much better after getting X" or "the neumann U47 just sounds so beautiful on everything". Forget about that shit. It's detrimental to learning. The stuff might be true TO THE AUTHORS. But at best they are simply in a different situation/ballgame/league than you - and at worst they're deluding yourself. Exercise extreme source criticism when encountering that stuff.

  • Michael_dk. Thanks. Good advice which I'll heed.


    So, my initial choice: Mac with Garage Band, (already installed).
    Roland Quad, KRK 6 and stands for flexibility, not quite sure which.
    2 mics I have already. Valve preamp. Yamaha mixer.
    KEMPER, remote with Mission control pedal.
    LP/strat/Mastercaster/PRS408, Martin. Numerous pedals including a Black Finger compressor, A Cathedral and a TC 4X looper-Delay
    Yamaha SY99.
    I think I'll be fine with those...


  • You're totally set, man :)


    But to reiterate: listen to different monitors in your price range in the store :)