Hard gate, like in the POD series

  • An hard gate is an easy but quite interesting tool (for high gain rigs).
    Basically you have 2 parameters:
    1) a "close" threshold (in dB)
    2) an "open" threshold (in dB)


    When the input signal (coming from the guitar) become lower than the close threshold, the gate "close" and no signal will come out of it until the input signal will become higher than the open threshold.
    It's usefull to mute the guitar during a song when you need 5 second of rest and don't want to roll the volume pot.


    So, strike your power chord, mute the string, the gate will close, wait 5 seconds or whatever, strike the chord again and the gate will open.
    Point is that during that 5 seconds of pause, your guitar is totally muted, no hum, no noise, no feedback.


    Without the hard gate, you have to rely on rolling the volume pot in order to stay silent...but if you have to do it relatively fast, it's quite annoying (think of the intro to Metallica Damage inc when guitars kick in, to have an idea of what I'm talking about).

  • Have you tried the STOMP Gate 4:1? I'm using it the way you describe, just set the threshold high. In combination with the INPUT Noisegate it cuts out the guitar pretty well.


  • What´s the advantage over a volume pedal (and a noise gate), or is it just an alternative? Or do you still get noise through, owing to the innate noisiness of the volume pedal and noise gate stuff? (The noise gate´s there to reduce the high gain buzzzzz).

  • Have you tried the STOMP Gate 4:1? I'm using it the way you describe, just set the threshold high. In combination with the INPUT Noisegate it cuts out the guitar pretty well.


    Well, a regular noise gate is always on. Even when you are playing, the gate is trying to do its job and this will alter your tone (not saying that it's a bad thing).
    An hard gate instead, works like a switch, it's either on or off.
    When it's on, no sound will pass, at all. When it's off, it's like a true bypass pedal, it won't affect your tone
    When it's on, it will listen to your input signal. If it's higher then close threshold, the gate won't apply any effect, your signal will be left unchanged.
    If the signal goes lower than close threshold, the gate will switch to "close status" and from there on, no signal at all will pass.
    While in the close state, it will listen your signal and will switch back to "open state" when your input signal will be higher than the open threshold.
    Just like a volume pedal, all down or all up, but this work automatically based on the input signal strength.




    What´s the advantage over a volume pedal (and a noise gate), or is it just an alternative? Or do you still get noise through, owing to the innate noisiness of the volume pedal and noise gate stuff? (The noise gate´s there to reduce the high gain buzzzzz).


    You're right, it works similar to a volume pedal but:
    1) it can't set the volume any way from 0 to 100%, it's only 0 or 100%, not 50%, not 20%, it's on or off
    2) it does the job automatically based on the input signal strength
    3) you don't need a volume pedal :)


  • To my understanding this is exactly the way the stomp gates in the profiler work.
    IMO the critical part is dialing in the threshold right. If it's too low the gate kicks in too early and alters the sound when you have long decays with not much sonic energy.
    If it's set too high it kicks in too late and you get some unwanted noise.
    A gate, by design, can never be optimal.


  • To my understanding this is exactly the way the stomp gates in the profiler work.
    IMO the critical part is dialing in the threshold right. If it's too low the gate kicks in too early and alters the sound when you have long decays with not much sonic energy.
    If it's set too high it kicks in too late and you get some unwanted noise.
    A gate, by design, can never be optimal.


    It's similar but not the same.
    A regular noise gate dump the "noise" under a specific threshold. The dump ratio is 2:1 or 4:1 if you consider the 2 noise gate that come wuth the KPA. This means that if the threshold is for example 0 dB, and the ratio is 2:1, if the input signal is -10db, then the gate will dump it to -5db then, after a while, it will dump it to -2.5, then 1.25 and so on.
    The hard gate instead, does not dump, it kills the sound.
    If the close threshold is 0 dB, then if the input signal is -10 db, the output will be muted and will remain muted forever until the input signal will be greater than the open threshold (ie, until you hit again a string with enough power).


    Anyway, I don't think it's a must have feature, you can live without it and use regular noise gate, volume pedal, volume pot, whatever; it was just something I found very useful while I was playing with the POD

  • well the big difference is that it has different thresholds to engage/disengage the expansion. This helped in the Pod to prevent "jitter" if you sustained a note right on the threshold value - it would toggle the gate on/off very quickly, getting this undesirable stutter sound. The Kemper simply doesn't do this, however, so I feel the multiple settings aren't necessary. It tracks super quickly but doesn't jitter - you almost never notice an artificial cutting in/out, but you get silence as soon as you mute the strings.


    If desired this can be simulated by using two gates in the Kemper with different Threshold settings.

  • Really, Bobbo?


    I remember the concept from quite a few guitar-related gates, and figured they'd all have this. I think one even called it the "Hysteresis Amount", which basically described the offset between the off and on settings in dB.


    I didn't realise the Kemper's doesn't sport this offset as I haven't felt the need to use it yet. Thank you for the correction, matey.


    OK, so my amended-request suggestion for Giallanon would be to "ask for higher-ratio options for the existing gates as well as an offset parameter that describes the level difference between opening and closing thresholds".

  • I gotta say, I never understood why there was two separate gates, instead of a single gate w/ a programmable ratio.


    I think what OP wants is more of an 8:1 or a 10:1 or a 20:1 gate. 4:1, when playing very staccato metal passages with high gain (djent stuff), is too little, even when the threshold is set properly. Setting two gates is an option, but it's really a band-aid on the correct solution, and you don't always have an extra slot available, particularly when you only have two post-amp slots to use for a gate.

    Guitars: Parker Fly Mojo Flame, Ibanez RG7620 7-string, Legator Ninja 8-string, Fender Strat & Tele, Breedlove Pro C25
    Pedalboard: Templeboards Trio 43, Mission VM-1, Morley Bad Horsie, RJM Mini Effect Gizmo, 6 Degrees FX Sally Drive, Foxpedals The City, Addrock Ol' Yeller, RJM MMGT/22, Mission RJM EP-1, Strymon Timeline + BigSky
    Stack: Furman PL-Plus C, Kemper Rack

  • ....


    OK, so my amended-request suggestion for Giallanon would be to "ask for higher-ratio options for the existing gates as well as an offset parameter that describes the level difference between opening and closing thresholds".


    hehe, which is exactly the hard gate that I've proposed :) Take the current noise gate, add open and close threshold, maybe a non-fixed ratio and call it hard gate



    I think what OP wants is more of an 8:1 or a 10:1 or a 20:1 gate. 4:1, when playing very staccato metal passages with high gain (djent stuff), is too little, even when the threshold is set properly. Setting two gates is an option, but it's really a band-aid on the correct solution, and you don't always have an extra slot available, particularly when you only have two post-amp slots to use for a gate.


    Exactly Doug, that's the point.
    You "can" simulate in some way the hard gate with current stomps, but in order to do it you've to use more than one slot and some magic trick to do something that, in all honesty, should be quite simple to obtain with just a litte modification of the code that is currently used for the noise gate

  • Itd be nice to have one gate effect with a parametized ratio. Separate open and close? I dunno - the only use i found for it is to use a couple db difference to prevent jitter, but i think the kpa's gates already do this. Id prefer to change one setting vs two. Maybe make one relative to the other, so you could leave it at 1-2 db if you didnt have some specialty use for it.


  • hehe, which is exactly the hard gate that I've proposed :) Take the current noise gate, add open and close threshold, maybe a non-fixed ratio and call it hard gate


    Of course, mate. I'm just suggesting expanding the parameter set (the on / off offset) and ratio options for the existing stomp; the idea of course being to avoid adding unnecessary ones. I say "unnecessary" assuming the scenario where the original gate stomp undergoes said parameter expansion (pun!).


    I mean, why duplicate any stomp for a given setting? This is what presets are for.


    It goes without saying that I totally get you; I'm just trying to look at it from a programming-efficiency's / Kemper Team's™ POV...


    Itd be nice to have one gate effect with a parametized ratio. Separate open and close? I dunno - the only use i found for it is to use a couple db difference to prevent jitter, but i think the kpa's gates already do this. Id prefer to change one setting vs two. Maybe make one relative to the other, so you could leave it at 1-2 db if you didnt have some specialty use for it.


    Hence my suggestion of an "Offset" parameter. It'd be more-or-less a set-and-forget one for a given guitar and player in most cases, one would think.


    Hope you're well Bobbo. Missed this place the last week.