Commercial Profile After-Market Value

  • Ebay Kleinanzeigen: Top Jimmy and mbritt profiles zipped for 120€......


    If someone is repeatedly selling kemper profile packs on Ebay maybe someone should report the seller if it violates the user agreements from the creators of the profile packs. I can't imagine they allow a buyer to separately resell their packs.
    See this link https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen…m-britt/453801492-74-5335

  • If someone is repeatedly selling kemper profile packs on Ebay maybe someone should report the seller if it violates the user agreements from the creators of the profile packs. I can't imagine they allow a buyer to separately resell their packs.
    https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen…m-britt/453801492-74-5335

    Depends whether or not the seller was actually subject to a licensing agreement or not. If he was not the original buyer, then it´s like a second hand book sale... perhaps???? Anyways, it´s a can of worms... :/

  • a nube thought.. still deciding to buy the rack or lunchbox.. in the meantime reading, watching and absorbing.


    I downloaded rig manager, and based on some of the profile detail info (the right side profile notes) ... it seems guys are profiles, tweaking them and then putting them on rig manager. For instance one guy had a 5150 profile that appeared to have originated from Top Jimmy (sp?) yet he was claiming/sharing the rig as the author. Whether that was a kemper issued rig or a commercial one that the author modified... I'm not sure. But what's to keep us from pooling money, buying packs, and then being "Robin Hood" to everybody else who owns a Kemper. Or on a more logical point why can't I just trade purchased profiles via dropbox or google drive.. are they encrypted in some way? Thanks in advance.-sg

  • Freisegler, I see it like this, a book is a physical object, a profile is not and can be copied.
    If the creators of the profile packs say "not for resale in any form except if included in a kemper unit" or similar then I can't see how it can be allowed to sell them.
    Ebay auctions are closed everyday with illegal copies of microsoft OS, programs, games ...
    They are not allowed to be copied and sold.

  • Freisegler, I see it like this, a book is a physical object, a profile is not and can be copied.
    If the creators of the profile packs say "not for resale in any form except if included in a kemper unit" or similar then I can't see how it can be allowed to sell them.
    Ebay auctions are closed everyday with illegal copies of microsoft OS, programs, games ...
    They are not allowed to be copied and sold.

    It's interesting what you say@HappyKemper I note however, and without wanting to singe that wonderful grass skirt of yours ;) that some post on their websites that they can one-sidedly change the licencing agreement and that it is the buyer's responsibility to check the website for updates to this (Andy). Others imply they would not want one to resell, give away etc.. Others have other formulations. This is why I said that the whole licencing thang is a can of worms anyway. Some formulations are not subject to national legislation, since they are quite seriously null and void.
    I now understand why Kemper doesn't even want to get into the "Product Liability Side" of all this. Don't get me wrong, I know it's incorrect terminology. How would one otherwise formulate this type of conundrum? Peace.

  • If a person bought my profiles and sold his kemper w/ those profiles I don't mind as its just a single instance.


    As far I remember, you are one of the vendor who definitely stated that it is only sell for use.
    Is a clear statement .


  • As far I remember, you are one of the vendor who definitely stated that it is only sell for use.
    Is a clear statement .


    You mean license it to the buyer ? Yes :) commercial use is allowed but selling/publication of profiles is not. Logic wins :) but since the profile is located on the hardware as bought by that person if he is selling his own personal unit and transfering that over, that i don't mind since its an isolated instance.


  • You mean license it to the buyer ? Yes :) commercial use is allowed but selling/publication of profiles is not. Logic wins :) but since the profile is located on the hardware as bought by that person if he is selling his own personal unit and transfering that over, that i don't mind since its an isolated instance.


    And if a person bought profiles from you and afterwards decided to sell them separately keeping his Kemper but deleting every copy of the profiles?
    (I think this is the case that most people are most intersted in as that would equal license transfer like outlined before.)

  • You mean license it to the buyer ? Yes commercial use is allowed but selling/publication of profiles is not. Logic wins but since the profile is located on the hardware as bought by that person if he is selling his own personal unit and transfering that over, that i don't mind since its an isolated instance.


    Well, to sell the hardware including the Rigs seemed to be really the logical approach.
    If the seller has a second Kemper or buy a new one and use a copy of this Rigs - nobody could proof. In this case it would be an ethic question.

  • And if a person bought profiles from you and afterwards decided to sell them separately keeping his Kemper but deleting every copy of the profiles?
    (I think this is the case that most people are most intersted in as that would equal license transfer like outlined before.)


    I wouldn't be happy with that as its essentially selling someone elses work.


    Well, to sell the hardware including the Rigs seemed to be really the logical approach.If the seller has a second Kemper or buy a new one and use a copy of this Rigs - nobody could proof. In this case it would be an ethic question.


    Thankfully nobody is buying kempers by the bulk and selling them pre-loaded.

  • I wouldn't be happy with that as its essentially selling someone elses work.


    Even if all copies were destroyed?
    Logic tells me you still sold your work, only to somebody else.
    Isn't this what license transfer is all about?
    Making sure that only ONE person is able to use the software/profile/whatever?


    I know this is a difficult topic.
    As there is no license protection system with profiles it remains an ethical consideration after all.


    BTW the consideration is just the same if a buyer decided to pass on some commercial profiles for free (for a band mate or whatever).
    And it's true that I already have been asked in this forum by PM if I wanted to pass on certain commercial profiles (which I rejected of course). ;)


    And thank you Dan for taking part in the discussion BTW. :)


  • Well, to sell the hardware including the Rigs seemed to be really the logical approach.
    If the seller has a second Kemper or buy a new one and use a copy of this Rigs - nobody could proof. In this case it would be an ethic question.



    Maybe I'm not understanding or your confusing yourself. If Person B buys the work of Person A and sells to Person C (specifically selling the profiles as created by Person A) then that shouldn't be allowed.

  • Maybe I'm not understanding or your confusing yourself. If Person B buys the work of Person A and sells to Person C (specifically selling the profiles as created by Person A) then that shouldn't be allowed.


    Its also my opinion, but it is almost unpossible to control.
    No plaintiff, no judge.
    Therefore in praxis its more a question of ethic and general understanding.


  • Maybe I'm not understanding or your confusing yourself. If Person B buys the work of Person A and sells to Person C (specifically selling the profiles as created by Person A) then that shouldn't be allowed.

    What I described above and what you repeat in other words is what I tried to name 'license transfer' which takes place in the software world all the time (like I stated above). It's not unethical if done right IMO and if no copies are kept etc.
    But you don't want this happening and of course I respect your position. ;)

  • What I described above and what you repeat in other words is what I tried to name 'license transfer' which takes place in the software world all the time (like I stated above). It's not unethical if done right IMO and if no copies are kept etc.
    But you don't want this happening and of course I respect your position. ;)


    If its transfered with the kemper then I have no issues with it, it defeats the object if someone who buys a pack, sells it on and deletes their original copy. Seems like a silly scenario overall.

  • What I described above and what you repeat in other words is what I tried to name 'license transfer' which takes place in the software world all the time (like I stated above). It's not unethical if done right IMO and if no copies are kept etc.
    But you don't want this happening and of course I respect your position. ;)



    I am in total agreement, Ingolf :)

  • It would not be silly at all, actually: I buy a CD (or a flac file). I don't like it, I resell it. We might nit-pic that I'm reselling the use license and not the property of the file, which I'd agree. But the outcome would nevertheless be one copy sold, one user. I can't see any bad in this.
    As for me, I reserve the right to resell anything I bought.


    The fact that an individual might sell just a copy of the file(s) while keeping one for themselves is a completely different issue, if you think of it; and any opposition to letting the original purchaser sell their unique copy (and hereby transfer the right of use) is no way going to prevent or fix that or to avoid piracy.


    :)


  • If its transfered with the kemper then I have no issues with it, it defeats the object if someone who buys a pack, sells it on and deletes their original copy. Seems like a silly scenario overall.


    Well I wouldn't call this scenario silly.
    A lot of buyers have already stated that more than once they bought profile packs in good faith only to realize when actually playing them that they don't work with their gear.
    And this is is a real disadvantage IMO, that with some vendors you can't try profiles before you buy them. You have to rely on YT vids and that's it.