Interesting gadget of use in profiling

  • My guess is placing a large cushion from a couch behind the microphone would be just as effective, if not more, for audio recording. That would likely be a simple way to test for any effect on the EQ of a profile, too.


    This is what I did when profiling my Vox VTX. My reason for doing it was I did the profiling in my apartment and literally built a cushion Fort around the cabinet to suppress noise.


    Considering I don't know a lot about how to mic an amp and the fact I couldn't experiment much other than dialing in known presets, I was surprised how good the profiles came out... And easy!

  • @MentaL Try to create some sort of air gap between the foam, that should improve the results. Perhaps all it would take is to layers of dense acoustic foam, with a space between them to get good results.


    Has anyone tried one of the Reflexion Filters for vocals? I have a poor room acoustically, so I was thinking of getting one for recording "deadened" vocals without all those reflections. Really expensive, and there are three models. The expensive ones use more than one layer, so if anyone plans to build one, check out their website, it mentions what layers are being used. Here they are, for reference, on the Pro model:
    1. Punched Aluminum Diffusor
    2. Acoustic-Grade Wool Absorber
    3. Tensioned Aluminum Foil Membrane Diffusor
    4. Isolating Air Gap
    5. Tensioned Aluminum Foil Membrane Diffusor
    6. Acoustic-Grade Wool Absorber
    7. Polycarbonate Diffusor
    8. Asymmetric Isolating Air Gaps
    9. Patented Polyester Acoustic Fiberboard




    They also mention what goes into the guitar reflection panel. "Acoustically, the guitaRF is very similar to our best-selling RF-X, with a four-layer acoustic filter design comprised of the outer composite panel, a layer of acoustic-grade wool, an air gap to help with low-frequency isolation, and an inner acoustic foam layer."

  • We use one in our voice over booth at work. It seems to help tame flutter echo in the tiny space, although the walls and ceiling are built from Rockfone and have acoustic foam fitted anyway. Having said that, my old studio neighbour Holger Lagerfeldt (google him - he's extremely knowledgable and shares his wisdom!) did some extensive testing and concluded that the positives from using one are negligible. YMMV and all that (I've got one eye on the Halo that I linked to further up the thread; shielding above and below the mic, too!).

  • We use one in our voice over booth at work. It seems to help tame flutter echo in the tiny space, although the walls and ceiling are built from Rockfone and have acoustic foam fitted anyway. Having said that, my old studio neighbour Holger Lagerfeldt (google him - he's extremely knowledgable and shares his wisdom!) did some extensive testing and concluded that the positives from using one are negligible. YMMV and all that (I've got one eye on the Halo that I linked to further up the thread; shielding above and below the mic, too!).


    I think the benefit would be more apparent in untreated spaces or spaces that would not be suitable to recording in general. It would not be of much use if you have a great sounding room, but it would be of great use in a crappy one.

  • I tried to make one for vocals and the result was terrible. Basically I put some Auralex on two thin sheets of MDF and positioned them at 90 degrees to make a nook behind my vocal mic. The HF was tamed, but the solid MDF caused havoc with the mids. It sounded like I was singing with my head in a box. I decided to see what the pros could, so I auditioned three different ones at the Guitar Center by talking into them. There were significant performance differences.


    The first one was a cheap knock-off. It didn't do very much and was very flimsy. Basically, this result could probably be had by putting a very thin piece of foam on a gooseneck behind a mic. It did something, but definitely not worth the hassle or expense.


    Next I tried the SE RF-X. That made my voice sound like I was in a nice vocal booth. It really cut down the ambience from the store and dried up the sound of my vocals nicely.


    Then I tried the SE RF-pro. That one was noticeably more effective than the RF-X, with a broader absorption. I've been in an anechoic chamber a couple of times an this reminded me of those experiences. My voice sounded much louder through my skull than from any ambience, which can be a bit disconcerting.


    I wound up purchasing the RF-X because it did a good job with the HF, but still felt somewhat open. It was also much cheaper than the RF-pro. It does make a difference in drying up vocals, even in my treated control room.

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  • This is excellent info, thanks. I've been considering one of the reflection filters.

  • ...Profiling does not capture room ambience, though...


    This is a very important point. You guys should test this for yourself. I did a test where I made a profile, made a speaker IR and recorded the amp directly, once in my studio and once in a very small bathroom. The recording of the amp in the bathroom obviously had tons of natural (or un-natural) reverb compared to the studio recording, but the profile and speaker IR made in the bathroom sounded pretty much exactly like the ones made in the studio. Profiling amps and capturing speaker IR's doesn't really pick up any room acoustics. Of course if you place your speaker cab 2 inches from a wall it will probably affect the profile but under normal circumstances I could not detect any difference between a large acoustically treated room and a small bathroom, so it's hard to imagine that a device like this would be of any use when making profiles.


  • This is a very important point. You guys should test this for yourself. I did a test where I made a profile, made a speaker IR and recorded the amp directly, once in my studio and once in a very small bathroom. The recording of the amp in the bathroom obviously had tons of natural (or un-natural) reverb compared to the studio recording, but the profile and speaker IR made in the bathroom sounded pretty much exactly like the ones made in the studio. Profiling amps and capturing speaker IR's doesn't really pick up any room acoustics. Of course if you place your speaker cab 2 inches from a wall it will probably affect the profile but under normal circumstances I could not detect any difference between a large acoustically treated room and a small bathroom, so it's hard to imagine that a device like this would be of any use when making profiles.




    Monkey_Man wrote:
    Since the Kemper ignores and doesn't reproduce any reflections of the original profiling space


    Don_Petersen wrote:
    sorry, not true.
    While the Profile won't capture the reverb of a room, it will however
    capture the influence the profiling space has in the frequency domain.
    very(!) close mic'ed setups will obviously have less of that influence
    present (the direct signal is much, much stronger) - but give the mic(s)
    a chance to pick up some of the room information (remember, no reverb,
    just frequency-wise) and it will be present in the profile.


    Otherwise the A/B comparison wouldn't work as well as it does on these profiles.


  • It would be interesting if someone would purchase one of these and make some A/B test profiles.


  • It would be interesting if someone would purchase one of these and make some A/B test profiles.


    Well, @MentaL is going to jury rig something together, so maybe we'll get an idea pretty soon.


    I think it would be great if someone bought one of these ready to order units and let us know whether it goes or blows though, haha!


    For the record, I don't profile (no amps or access to them), or I would try it myself :D

  • @MentaL How much did the white box and mesh cost - or am I getting this the wrong way round somehow? Wasn´t it to design a cab that wouldn't provide any signals that needed to be cancelled out when being miked? :D


    But seriously, that looks like some pretty useful kit bud. Any chance of any further pics? :thumbup: