Which linear boxes for a powered Kemper?

    Make your own cab. Buy the guts and you just saved over half the costs. There is no big mystery to speaker cabs. Or if you feel there is, it is easy to clone any cab out there. Wood, tolex, hardware, speakers, crossover, wire, padding, done.

    Nope. I've built many cabs over the years in different formats, all sounded just as good as anything you'd pay top dollar for, period. If in doubt, you could always go to the extreme and go though the scientific rigors with scopes and measures, but ultimately, the ear doesn't lie. In live situations, there are so many variables to sound few if any could tell the diff between any cab, only in a closed studio environment may some find difference with close scrutiny, real or imagined. If you don't know anything about building things, materials, speakers, etc., you would be lost in the discussion, but for those of us that have been doing this for decades, it is old hat.

    Quote from Nemo13

    Nope. I've built many cabs over the years in different formats, all sounded just as good as anything you'd pay top dollar for, period. If in doubt, you could always go to the extreme and go though the scientific rigors with scopes and measures, but ultimately, the ear doesn't lie. In live situations, there are so many variables to sound few if any could tell the diff between any cab, only in a closed studio environment may some find difference with close scrutiny, real or imagined. If you don't know anything about building things, materials, speakers, etc., you would be lost in the discussion, but for those of us that have been doing this for decades, it is old hat.


    As someone who has been building my own cabinets for decades, I have to disagree with this statement. Also, not all speakers that you'd pay top dollar for are equivalent either.

    I hate emojis, but I hate being misunderstood more. :)

    Nemo, I'm of course not talking about guitar cabs or bass cabs.
    if you can build a linear cab with better or equal specs as say a CLR at a fraction of its price you should definitely commercialize them.


    Also, I'd note that "the ear doesn't lie" is incorrect by definition: human perception is strongly related to emotions, expectations and context. Listen to a complex signal at a certain volume, then change the signal level: your perception about the spectral character of the sound will change drastically. And this is just the simplest example I could make about which we all agree.
    There are tests and trials enough nowadays to show that all our perceptions are context-related, thereby including our emotional situation.


    If you want to explore more on the subject, you might want to for example google for


    acoustic perception tricks


    The ear is not perfect, thus no speaker is perfect. When I say 'the ear doesn't lie' I mean that the ear will only hear what it can in its current environment. Most things people think they hear are in their head not the product. I have built audiophile level speakers and I have upgraded cheapo speakers for years. 90% of people would never question the difference. Can you make a guitar cab from $300 sound as good as ones selling for $1500? Absolutely. No different than when I build an exotic guitar for $1000 and sell it for $5k. You save a lot learning and doing yourself, and in the process learn more about sound, etc.

    Quote from Nemo13

    Can you make a guitar cab from $300 sound as good as ones selling for $1500? Absolutely.


    Oh, definitely agree. But a linear cab is a completely different beast (BTW I obviously meant CLR ;) ).
    Also, I'd not trust just anyone when it comes to evaluate any device's linearity by ear: it requires a great experience, training and great skills.


    OTOH, if you mean that the average Guitar Joe would not be able to tell what's more linear and transparent between a CLR and say an RCF I completely agree, again. But this would not be meaningful for me, and Joe can definitely grow, if he educates his ear by listening to premium quality gear.
    I'd also agree that listening to an arbitrary, tight-band source like an electric guitar doesn't necessarily empathise the difference between two designs.


    On a side note, if you spend 1,000 $ for building a guitar, I believe 5,000 $ is a fair shelf price. My custom, 5,000 € Makassar took 6 months to be built and three visits by me to my luthier for adapting the neck and the cuts to my body. At the end of the process he had earned 3 € per hour...
    Imagine if he had needed a distributor and then a seller... add 20-40% for each passage, not to mention transportation, wharehousing ecc.


    Now, if you do it in your free time and you are very skilled you can certainly create something extraordinary that costs you a fraction of its commercial value, but doing it for a living is something completely different. Unless Joe has got a skilled friend, an expensive (linear) cab still gives him the best possible sound IMO.


    :)

    If you take the components out of any speaker, you have a box. What does the box cost to build? Not much. The components are the price. The rest is just thoughtful construction. You could have a price difference of $$$$ between same speakers solely because of the name. Could you find equal sound in cheaper components? Certainly. Do people overspend for what they really need? Absolutely. As far as guitars, a guitar only takes 6 months to build because of volume, nothing more. I am not a business, so I can build the best guitar in the world in 3 weeks. Most of the time is paint, given proper drying time or if I bake the paint. If I build a neck through by hand, it it would take around 1 week. If I use my CNC, about 2 days. Is there a diff between the two methods in quality or sound? No. For example, if I want a 4 x 12 by say ENGL 4/12 with Celestion Vintage 30, that would be around $1350 or so new. To buy the speakers, hardware & tolex, wood, etc, around $650 new. Maybe even cheaper depending on the deal you can get on the speakers. Or you could find similar speakers with the same specs that costs less with same result. Anything you do yourself is going to save you lots of $$. Also, nothing makes you grow more and further in to sound and beyond than creating your own, and for some who can never find exactly what they want, this may be the best if not only option. Simpler still is repurposing a speaker cab that has the same construction as a much costlier speaker, but just a shitty speaker and ugly tolex. $50 in tolex, a great speaker, and you have a top notch new speaker cab for less. Even a crappy speaker cab will do at times. I got a used Laney IRT-112 for $100. I liked the dimensions, which is 22 x 17 x 14, a nice size to set a little rack on with my Kemper. Took out the 12" speaker, put in a cheap Eminence Beta-12CX & driver, 2 way crossover for around $140, and this thing sounds awesome. Total cost less than $300. Or you could spend over $1000 for someone else to sell you something.

    Quote from Gitarrenschlumpf

    The Eminence Beta 12 CX is not flat enough, to run it through a crossover you can buy. There is a 6 dB peak between 1,8 and 4 kHz. You have to design and build the crossover by your own, because there is no crossover on the market to flatten the peaks of the 12 CX out. But my best wishes for building your own FRFR cabs!


    Incorrect. Eminence PXB2:1K6 or Eminence PXB2:2K5CX work fine. My little project Laney cab sounds excellent.

    Once again, you are wrong. Sorry. And did I mention how well it sounds with the Kemper? Everyone who has played through it likes it. The win goes to the peoples vote. ;)


    We can go back and forth all day on opinions of crossovers and such, but that is straying from my original point which is more interesting. Choice of components are many and is pretty much like arguing about which 12" speaker sounds best with a Marshall.

    Edited once, last by Nemo13 ().

    Quote from Nemo13

    If you take the components out of any speaker, you have a box. What does the box cost to build? Not much.


    You're oversimplifying here. What you write can be true for a guitar cab, but it's certainly not for a linear cab which requires a deep study of the crossover, of the internal volumes, of the resonances, of the dampening... also the case material changes the resonances and the overall behaviour.



    Quote from Nemo13

    As far as guitars, a guitar only takes 6 months to build because of volume, nothing more.


    No, the bridge of my guitar has been carved from a full block of surgical iron. It took 40 days for just this, including finding an artisan with hard enough tools for the task and travelling there (to a different town) a couple of times.
    The abalone was worked and polished by hand and then cut accordingly to a custom design which took days for drawings alone. Then the fretboard was sent to an artisan able to laser-carve the seats for the single inlays. abalone was inserted with no glue, so much the cuts were perfect.
    The making of my guitar is a beautiful story in itself, inclusing the original '50s piece of furniture he bought in order to access the Brazilian wood he wanted. I've just reported a couple of details to show how complex its making was.



    Quote from Nemo13

    Everyone who has played through it likes it. The win goes to the peoples vote.


    I'm pretty sure this is the case, and I wish you all succes! You've never specified whether you build guitar cabs or rather linear cabs, where people's opinion is just one element in the equation tho. I don't care if most people prefer a certain linear cab because it's more scooped here or there and makes a distorted guitar sound "better" (for example because of dampened highs): I want my linear cab to sound transparent, and will fix my sound at the source (Kemper).


    Again, if you can build a cab with better measured specs than a CLR at a fraction of the cost... the modellers' world is yours :)


    Surgical Iron? Why did you choose this? Milling shouldn't take 40 days, but I guess if you have to send it out.. I can knock out the finest detail inlay on my CNC. I wouldn't trust no glue, I can't see any advantage not to have them glued considering wood and humidity and such. Guitar stories are the best! That is what makes some guitars magical and others just guitars. Not by who owned them or anything, but the timeline of its making such as yours. A few years back I made a few magick guitars, with the following of all the rituals, hours of the day, preparations, etc, and little spells under the bridge pickups, etc... Weird to some, fun for others...


    Quote

    My company and me are very fine. Good luck to yours!


    Glad to hear. I don't have a company, its just me.