Converting a mix-ready profile into a live-ready profile

Are you familiar with Pure Cab? It helps me a lot in this department, even tho I don't play metal.

But the parameter I use most often to "soften" sounds is Definition. Also, I'd give a try to Clarity (both belong to the Amp section).

Feel free to report back!

What is this " as well all know" stuff??? There are no " special " profiles for live use verses recording. The ONLY commercial vendor who originally stated his profiles were for live use BUT also uses them in the studio is Michael Britt. There is no special way to make a profile good for live use vs recording. Unless you are using outboard gear in your profiling chain such as external eq's etc. For the most part, most profiles are made with a mic and a mic preamp: sometimes only a mic. Not really much way to differentiate a live profile from a "recording" with the only tool being a micropvone generally. I'd be more interested in what PA you are using and how things are running via that end of things vs the profikes you are using . Tonehammer especially has numerous pros
using his stuff live, definitely not a problem with the profiles ...

Buy MBrit Profiles
Play Live
???
PROFIT

Jokes aside... I usually just make a special live output EQ preset with Bass and Treble lowered - I just care about my inear sound. The FOH guy will do the rest.

I found most of the Mbritt profiles really good especially for live, because they are very mid-heavy which is very easy to mix for most FOH guys.

Quote from metalmike

I have tried to tweak all these parameters but they doesn't make a bright profile darker. Ok, more definition kinda adds brightness so lower is better and clarity makes the sound even brighter or thinner. Also pure cab is created to have the guitar cab sound feeling with a frfr, i don't want to change the nature of the sound. Thanks for the suggestions though

I think you missed the word "most" i wrote. I said most of the profiles. Anyway, imho, yes, most of the commercial profiles are created for recording. You said it yourself, only Michael Britt has said clearly that his profiles are for live use. Not every profile suits for all. And if you agree that there is a big enough difference between a good profile for recording and a good profile for live then you have to do something with the first one to make it good for live too. For example, i have read that Trivium, when they released Vengeance Falls album, at their live performances they had then, they played with the profiles they used to record the guitars of the album, but with some tweaks (they didn't say them of course). These tweaks i am trying to find. I also have noticed that the tone coming out from the guitar cabs of metal bands is always dark, to balance the mic brightness for the PA sound. This makes sense to me. You said about Tonehammer and pros using his profiles...but how sure you are that they use them without any tweaking? You cannot prove that.

You are right, but it has happened the FOH guy to tell me lower the treble from Kemper because it was too much. That's why i am trying to find some settings to have the most balanced but also huge sound i could get.

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There is no "one size fits all" approach to tweaking for a live sound unfortunately. Do it profile by profile for best results. Make sure you do it at gig volumes.

If you want a shortcut to that, you should work with the EQ in the output section

Quote from mDan

I usually just make a special live output EQ preset with Bass and Treble lowered - I just care about my inear sound. The FOH guy will do the rest.

This sums it up for me.
A lot of profiles contain an amount of treble which is right for home playing but unbearable at gig volume. Therefore when I choose to use these I lower the treble but mostly on the profile itself, not the output EQ.

Funny you mention trivium. Those guys are some of my best friends, and I actually happen to have the vengeance falls profiles profile that was used on the record. The record was done with a profile of 5153, and then 2 outside tracks of a real 5150. To match the live tone, they actually make the profile BRIGHTER and thinner for live use, believe it or not: kind of the opposite of what you were thinking. That doesn't mean it works for all profiles though of course.

i mentioned the Britt profiles to make a point that while mike might have created them for "live" use, they are the exact same tones he's using to record with too. So whose profiles
are you trying To use live? what kind of PA's
mare you playing on? Have you played with the hi/low pass in the graphic EQ section ?

I make my profiles to be used both ways too. I hardly ever eq or alter them at all whether it be at home or on a stage sending direct to FOH while I have a guitar cab behind me. They sound pretty consistent to my ears either way.

you also mention how can I be so sure that pros using tonehammers profiles aren't doing any tweaks... You are basically implying there are special "tweaks" that work for making s profile work live: well if that's the case, we've given them to you man: hi/low pass, cutting treble adding mids etc. im not sure what else you are looking for exactly??? I mean those are absolutely the most standard "tweaks" out there
that many people do. There is no one standard tweak that will universally work for everything?

I kmow the EXACT frequencies Corey and Matt
cutt/boost on the profile they use live from vengeance falls, and how much: but that only applies to that specific profile and their specific mix
man, there are too many variables. Bottom line you gotta use your ears...

Quote from metalmike

I have tried to tweak all these parameters but they doesn't make a bright profile darker. Ok, more definition kinda adds brightness so lower is better and clarity makes the sound even brighter or thinner. Also pure cab is created to have the guitar cab sound feeling with a frfr, i don't want to change the nature of the sound.

Of course I was talking of lowering Definition and Clarity, not raising them!

Granted, tastes are tastes but the three parameters I've mentioned are exactly what I operate on in order to do what I got you'd want to achieve.
You always change the nature of a sound when you use any filter, so not sure what you mean by that...
Most of the freqs I got you'd like to get rid of come from the mic's positioning close to the loudspeakers, and PC takes care of this exactly.

Nevertheless, I hope you'll find your sonic way!

Man , Rough crowd

man....It's a funny world when you ask for advice, and give a reference to something that the person who is giving the advice has intimate knowledge and experience with, and thats considered mean!

Lol dude you have a weird way of reading messages . I was not in the least being "mean". I literally gave you some suggestions and real world advice, I'm not sure what came across as mean. You asked a very broad question, I just simply explained why it's not that simple and why there are so many variables ( PA, room, profile, player, FOH engineer etc) and why one tool or fix wont really help you, other than the hi/low Pass, lowering trrble/pres, boosting mids etc.

And yes, Matt and Corey boost several frequencies in the 3-6k range, while scooping out some 240 hs with the studio EQ at varying levels as they use different pickups ( blackouts and EMG's as I'm sure you are aware)

and also you have to understand when you play at a pro level like that, what you feed the FOH matters less and less in a sense. Meaning EVERYTHNG is pro: from the engineer the mixing console ( very underrated around here) to the cabling to the actuaL PA itself: it's almost hard to get bad tone I genuinely feel with the Kemper when you have all those resources surrounding you : this is why I asked yiu the questions i did... There is multiple ways to get to grandmas house: not just one... Meaning there are multiple ways to get what you are trying to
achieve, you just need to figure out whih one works best at the level you're playing at and what will get you the best tone out front: if you're a touring pro with pro pro everything, trust me you are gonna sound great out front no matter what you do ( again, in general)... If you have no sound man, terrible pa , playing in a bar etc then yea, you are gonna have to work harder yourself to control the fizz you speak of.