Thin sound!! (again!!! hahahaha... But this time with more research)


  • since you are obviously in the position to mic and record an amp - why don't you profile an amp yourself?
    now you will have a meaningful A/B comparison, instead of trying to tone match a track.


    Well, I'm getting a 5150III 50watter soon, and I will definitly try that out.


    I don't do it often because I have my home studio in an apartment, and have to travel a good bit to get to my rehearsal where I can have loud tube amps.

  • This does sound like what a recorded Dual Rectifier should sound like.
    I've recorded real Dual Rectifier for one my bands albums a couple of years ago, and I remember it being boomy and bassy as hell.

    Dont know what Mesa DR rev are you recorded and what cab was used Man :D If you read again my post you se that its Mesa DR Rev.F from 1992 cab is Marshall MF400 4x12 with K100 Speakers not V30 also no one sm57 was used! just condenser AT 4040 and dynamic Heil PR20 and what is important Boost! I think you also now how important are used cabs speakers and mics?


    Anyway trust me or not Mesa DR can sounds like this :D


    4 samples again: This time on My Mesa Rectifier 2x12 cab miced with 2xsm57


    1. Real Mesa Unboosted
    2. Kemper Profile
    3. Real Mesa Boosted
    4. Kemper Profile



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    Quote
    Quote

    why don't you profile an amp yourself?
    now you will have a meaningful A/B comparison, instead of trying to tone match a track.

    this! :thumbup: Good luck!


    Stay Metal!


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    The Kemper profiles are slightly more trebly than the real amp.


    That's my own experience when making my own Kemper profiles too. Both DI (Engl preamp) and real amp (Dual Rectifier/Engl preamp with poweramp) got a little more high end fizz in the Kemper profile, just like your profiles got in that clip


    I just searched for 'kemper 5150 comparison' and found some random comparisons on Soundcloud.
    They do the same thing! The Kemper is more trebly than the real amp, in both this. Just like your new SinMix comparison...
    And its just like my own experiences with profiling amps myself


    EDIT: removed one becuase it was KEmper vs Axe FX, sorry... didn't realize it first


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  • Except that the first clip you linked to was comparing Kemper to Axe FX 8|


    The second clip to me sounds very close, except the room ambience on the real amp is, of course, missing from the Kemper clip (ignoring the fact that it either isn't reamped or is comparing two different sections of the same reamp; not exactly scientific). Dial in some Space and I think we'd find it hard to hear them apart.

    Edited 2 times, last by sambrox ().

  • Awesome of Sinmix to go this far trying to help you man! Not everyone who sells profiles would do the same. Did you ask Sinmix if it's possible to achieve the tone you are looking for in that first example with his amps?


    IMHO (with untrained ears) Your comparison of the Sinmix reamp and yours sounds like Sinmix is using a compressor. Either that or you need to notch up your distortion sense.


    The GDP comparison both real and kemper hurt my ears. Horrible scratchy tone was put in and horrible scratchy tone came out.



  • I'm wondering if the is some gain staging issue here - it sounds like yours is pushed harder, resulting in more distortion. If you and @sinmix used spdif, did you tell him what your clean sense is set at? (that would allow him to set the reamp sense to the opposite value to ensure gain staging was identical)

  • I'm wondering if the is some gain staging issue here - it sounds like yours is pushed harder, resulting in more distortion. If you and @sinmix used spdif, did you tell him what your clean sense is set at? (that would allow him to set the reamp sense to the opposite value to ensure gain staging was identical)


    My clean sense is at -12


    I've made threads about that before, without any solution.


    Others have had the same problem too. If I raise the clean sense above -12 it starts clipping red!


    Nobody has ever been able to find out the issue... :(


    And here I am with my thin sounding profiles. Nobody can help... Or even understand :(

  • My clean sense is at -12


    Most (all?) commercial profiles are created with the Clean and Distortion Sense set to 0. That explains why your KPA sounds different with these rigs than other people's KPAs.


    If you are clipping the Input of the KPA, your pickups may be too close to the strings.


    If you are clipping the Output of the KPA, your pickups may be too close to the strings, and you may be adding too much gain or output to compensate for the Input settings,

  • Most (all?) commercial profiles are created with the Clean and Distortion Sense set to 0. That explains why your KPA sounds different with these rigs than other people's KPAs.


    If you are clipping the Input of the KPA, your pickups may be too close to the strings.


    If you are clipping the Output of the KPA, your pickups may be too close to the strings, and you may be adding too much gain or output to compensate for the Input settings,



    Clean sense doesn't even affect the sound at all on these profiles :rolleyes:
    Okay, so just to try, I set Clean Sense to 0 too. Of course, this doesn't affect the sound at all on the distorted profiles.


    And I had to lower my pickup down THIS MUCH to not clip the input.
    This is NOT NORMAL for a guitar to have a pickup this low. Also, the guitars harmonic response is severly affected by this.
    [Blocked Image: http://i68.tinypic.com/j6u1d0.jpg
    [Blocked Image: http://i67.tinypic.com/30w5n9x.jpg]


    Clean sense makes NO DIFFERENCE in sound.
    Dist sense DOES make difference, but it's at 0.


    Does different interface units have different sound quality on SPDIF?!

    From what I have read, all SPDIF have the same sound quality, but if that's a wrong statement, then I guess I have to get a new interface? :(
    I have a Tascam US-1641 (mainly for drums) and Tascam US-144MKII, so it's definitely a couple of fairly cheap ones.


    Should I buy a higher tier interface?

  • My comment was regarding the reamping sinmix did for you - if you have the clean sens at -12, his reamp sens should be set at +12, in order to get identical results. This is of course only works like this if you both used spdif. Otherwise, gain staging is done differently (although it's still as relevant).


    -12 seems excessive.


    Have you contacted support about any of these issues, I wonder? there is the possibility that your unit might be faulty (or something to do with the firmware). If you haven't I suggest you do (link is in my signature).

  • Check reamp sense, too!


    The reamp and normally recorded tone is exactly the same.
    So that's not the issue


    But if you wanna know I have reamp at maximum... Which is weird, before OS update, I had to have the reamp sense at about -5 or something, or else it clipped like hell... I have no idea why I had to change that. Clean sense still has to be -12

  • My apologies, I've not got anything to help the OP but I just want to add that that my absolute favourite, go-to profile is SinMix's Marshall 6100. I use it for all my crunch tones in my band. I don't even play metal but this thing is stunning for all my rock tones, it even cleans up beautifully for some Morphing. Definitely not thin at all.


    Sinmix's efforts on this thread make me feel even more guilty that I got it free on Rig Manager! Top man, top profile! Thanks!

  • Well I did experiment with the reamp sense up and down but nothing get it closer to SinMixs own version.
    Just less and more gain... Still the same ugly fizziness and thin bottom

    I do hear what you are saying with your comparison matched example with sinmix. You are missing some mids and lows in your example which makes it sound thin and fizzy. There has to be a setting that you are doing differently than sinmix.


    Sinmix, ever think about offering paid skype support? This is something even I would sign up for.

  • I do hear what you are saying with your comparison matched example with sinmix. You are missing some mids and lows in your example which makes it sound thin and fizzy. There has to be a setting that you are doing differently than sinmix.


    Sinmix, ever think about offering paid skype support? This is something even I would sign up for.


    Finally somebody who gets my issue :D


    I don't ever wanna hear again "I prefer your sound" or "that should be better in a mix" like some people in this thread (and all my other past threads about the same issue)... That's not my issue guys :( it's not helping me solve my issue :(
    The issue is that my recordings and reamps sounds different THAN THEY SHOULD