How the F*#@ do I save a performance?!

  • Let me be clear, I love the sound and features of the Kemper. But the unbelievably complicated process of creating a performance is actually starting to make me HATE using it. I've listed below what I've done in hopes of saving a performance so I can actually use this thing for live gigs now. I would really appreciate it if someone could save me from having a stroke by giving me step by step instructions on how to create and store a performance to my Kemper Controller. I've read the manual (which is worth nothing more than toilet paper). It tells you to open a couple windows, drag and drop the rigs into the empty slots and then you can double click them to edit them. But that's where the instructions stop. Seriously, what pathetic manual stops half way through the steps?!


    So far, this is what I've done.

    • Connected my laptop to my KPA and opened Rig Manager.
    • I dragged only the rigs that I want to use from my Local Library, into the "MyProfiler" section under All Rigs.
    • I've opened up a new window, created a new performance (named Bank 1 - Main Rigs) and dragged my rigs into the empty slots of that performance, and edited their names. So for example, I have 5 different rigs in my main performance, filling slots 1-5, named as: Main Rhythm, Heavy Rhythm, Clean, Clean w/Dirt, Solo).

    My question is, how do I now get those to store, in that order, on my Kemper Controller? It would have been nice if the manual would actually tell me how to do it, but apparently that's asking a bit much. So I'm going to the real source of help, this forum.


    Thanks!!!

  • To my knowledge RM does not store anything to the profiler. I think of it as a preview mode. Once you have something you are previewing and like, use the 'store' button on the profiler to save it. Do the save before you move on to the next rig or performance.

  • Also, if you decide to change anything within a rig, avoid switching to another rig within the same Performance, or you'll lose the changes. Press the Store button 3 times on the Kemper to save the changes made to the rig.


    The Kemper would benefit from an actual software editor that's more comprehensive than RM. I agree it is a missing item for a hardware of its kind.

  • The editor is a bit bothersome, but it can work.


    Right click "performances", add new performance or whatever it's called. It gives you 125 performances (I'm confusing matters now, I know), each with 5 slots.
    Drag rigs to a the slots in the right side of a chosen performance (from another window browsing individual RIGS in your library).


    These performances can be dragged into a newly opened window of "my profiler's" performance view. Drag a performance (containing 5 slots/rigs) into the my profiler window, hover over one of the perofrmance spots in there, a release the button (may have to futz around with the mouse a little bit to get it to understand what you want to do). Release mouse button.

  • Thanks Michael. I'm pretty sure that's what I've been doing. And I should have been clear, I know how to create a new performance using the knobs on the KPA itself. I'm just looking to take advantage of using Rig Manager to make all the naming edits as quick as possible.


    One other question, let's say I've got my performance stored the way I want it to be. And I have a rhythm Rig in slot 1. If I want to take that same rig, as a template to use for my solo tone/rig, if I put the original rig in slot 5, and then add in whatever effects and volume changes I need for it to be different enough to be a solo tone, will those two rigs be stored separately in the browse pool, or do they only get stored as a new/separate rig in the browse pool if I actually go into the slot and specifically tell it to store as a new rig? The reason I ask, is because I usually start with a tone that I like and then build my other tones around that one with different tweaks. I'm hoping it doesn't store each time I do that because it could end up taking up a lot of extra unnecessary space.

  • Hi OhG,
    Do you have your KPA on, KPR connected and in performance mode? Is it connected to your computer and synced with RM?
    If that is all good, I would have thought the performances you have set up could just be dragged onto your profiler My Performances folder in Rig Manager. These should then appear on your profiler in Performance mode.
    Anyone else confirm this?
    Kind regards
    Pre-Amp

  • Not even necessary actually, if the Profiler is in Performance mode the current performance in RM is just shown on a double-click, just like any rig.


    Note: when I create a new performance I am in the All Performances\My Profiler section of RM.


    To the OP: apart from your funny statements about toilet paper, I have to say that I've never found the process of creating a performance an unbelievably complicated process. Actually, if I already know what rigs I want to be part of it, the whole process doesn't take more than one minute from within RM. My guess is that there's some step in your logical approach that makes appear things complicated to you: it's just a matter of realizing where the griping takes place, so to speak.
    The number of people who have answered your request show that it's possible! ;)


    For example:


    you don't need you item #2.


    Be sure to create your Performance in "Performances\My Profiler".


    When you've done, double click on it, it will appear on your Profiler.


    Save the performance on the Profiler.


    Done.

  • I'm just getting more and more frustrated. I literally friggin' hate this piece of gear right now, and it's soley because of this issue.


    So, I finally got a performance stored the way I want it in the controller. I gave up on Rig Manager and just did it using the KPA (I'm using the rack version). Then with Rig Manager hooked up to the KPA, I changed the names that way instead of having to use the knobs, which would take forever. Okay, easy enough.


    But, then, I decided, okay, now that I've got my basic tones stored in each slot, let's edit the effects the way I want them. So I assigned the for buttons (I, II, III, IIII) to control the stomps, with no problem. However, when I stored them after editing effects, I was offered 2 options:

    • Store entire performance
    • Store individual module

    I figured since I'm in performance mode, the logical choice was to store the performance. I did that, and after editing all my rigs in the slots, on the controller, the names reverted back to the original rig names on the controller. All the effects and slots were stored correctly, but it changed the names. So I figured, okay, just another typical KPA software headache, I'll go back in and change them in Rig Manager. Nope. Couldn't do it. They are grey'ed out and I'm not able to change them.


    So what the hell am I doing wrong? I mean seriously, this should NOT be this hard to create banks of individual patches. With EVERY other guitar processor I've used (the G-Syste for example), I could just open up a patch (slot), edit the effects any way I wanted, change the name, and hit "store". That's it. No dealing with multiple windows, worrying about multiple copies of the same patch due to which mode I'm in, etc. And if I wanted to use a patch for a template for another patch, I could just edit the patch and then tell it to store the newly edited version in bank 1 slot 3 for example.


    And again, the manual doesn't give any clear instructions whatsoever on how to complete this process. It tells you WHAT the KPA can do, and gets you about halfway through the process and then literally doesn't finish. WTF?!?!

  • Save your edits step by step. You rename a slots? Save before renaming a new one or editing\adding fx. Edit an fx? Save before moving to a different slot.


    "the names reverted back to the original rig names on the controller": does this mean that the names where right on the Profiler's screen instead?


    Also, you did not comment on my suggestions from my previous post.
    I guess it would help you master the device more if you faced each issue you have before just trying a different thing.


    What KAOS version are you working with?

  • Two suggestions.


    1. Make sure that you have the a current backup of the KPA, before doing anything. You can always fall back to this, is something goes astray.


    2. Make sure that you have the lastest version of RM installed.


    Last week, I started messing around with RM, and performances, and before I knew it, I had missing performances, blank spaces, and all kind of weird crap. I downloaded the latest version of RM, and all the problems went away.


  • I saved after each edit or change I've made. For example, I saved the entire performance (using just the KPA - I gave up dealing with Rig Manager's crap). I had all the slots where I wanted them, and the names of the slots were all showing up correctly with the new names that I gave them. In slot 3, I have a clean tone. I wanted to add some delay to it. So I added the delay and saved it (which is when I was presented with the "save entire performance or individual module" option). Then I moved on to the next edit I wanted to make in a different slot's rig, etc. After doing all my edits for the slots, the effects and rig positions saved correctly in the places that I wanted them to be in, but I noticed the names on the Controller AND the display on the KPA, were no longer showing up as the names that I gave them. Instead, they reverted back to their original names (i.e.: the profile name they came with, as opposed to the name that I use, like "Main Rhythm"). However, in Rig Manager, the names that I gave them, were still showing, but were grey'd out, and not editable.


    I'm not just trying random things. Like I said, I was able to get the slots saved where I want them to be (without using Rig Manager). Everything was fine until I decided I wanted to edit the effects in each slot. It's when I did that, the names changed.


    I can't remember the exact number/version, but I'm using whatever firmware was the most current prior to 4.0 coming out. I'm not touching 4.0 until all the bugs are worked out because this is already frustrating enough using a firmware that isn't in beta. I'm not a dufus when it comes to this stuff. I've used processors in the past, along with the G-System and it'd editing program. I work in IT, and I'm using computers all day. So none of this should be over my head. But I'm finding this process extremely convoluted and so much more complicated than it needs to be (especially given that the KPA forces you to deal with copies of rigs rather than just letting you have ONE rig that gets edited).

  • You should double check your version of RM. As mentioned, I was having similar problems. I checked the website a couple days ago, and there was a new version of RM available. Since installing it, I haven't had any RM problems. FYI. There's also a backup feature in RM, to save your RM data.

  • I downgraded back to FW3.3 and one of the reasons were the performances, 4.X is still BETA. Nevertheless in Performance Mode my main Button is the Store Button at the KPA, otherwise it will drive you crazy. The Performance Mode seems a bit tricky and I hope they improve it in the next FWs. As a musican you shouldn't know off the manual ...

    zuviel thread macht blead

  • You should double check your version of RM. As mentioned, I was having similar problems. I checked the website a couple days ago, and there was a new version of RM available. Since installing it, I haven't had any RM problems. FYI. There's also a backup feature in RM, to save your RM data.


    I was thinking the same thing. So I uninstalled and reinstalled RM, and now creating a performance is working the way everyone mentioned it should. I'm doing the EXACT same steps as I was doing before, but for some reason, now it works. So the only thing I can think of is my version of RM must have been corrupt.


    Now that I've lost 2 years off the end of my life from the stress of this, I can get back to playing and setting up my stuff for my first live gig with the KPA!

  • The whole rig manager thing is unnecessarily unintuitive.
    The Kemper is crying out for a full (intuitive) editor at this point.
    I love the Kemper and am happy to champion it to whoever will listen, but having no editor is becoming nonsensical to say the least.

  • The whole rig manager thing is unnecessarily unintuitive.
    The Kemper is crying out for a full (intuitive) editor at this point.
    I love the Kemper and am happy to champion it to whoever will listen, but having no editor is becoming nonsensical to say the least.


    I agree. I was checking out a friend's band last night and I was telling him how awesome the KPA is once you devote some time to it. But the lack of an editor, and certain things about the operating system seem like mistakes that you'd expect from this type of gear 20 years ago. Everything else about the KPA is great. I'd love it if the Kemper team would address this, even if it meant coming at the expense of a future firmware release.

  • FYI about the "store entire performance or amp module" question, I just got this from tech support:


    - Entire performance means you save the setting for the Rig in the Performance.

    - Amp Module indicates you have selected the Amp module so you are able to create a preset of the Amp module.


    Sincerely

    Peter