Kemper vs. original amp Match Eq test

  • I am happy using Kemper but I sometimes find that the profiles don't quite capture the bass frequencies (around and below 100Hz) of the original amp+cab+mic -combination. The way I hear this is that the profile seems to be lacking the depth or punch of the real rig that it is profiling.


    Here is a little test I made with Match Eq. It is more or less along the lines of the tests that I have made previously: After 90Hz there is a few dB bass roll-off. In this case it is quite mild. In some other cases it has been more noticeable.


    In the first picture is a Mesa amp loaded down with Torpedo Live with an IR versus Kemper profile of the same rig. The eq curve shows the frequency response of Kemper vs. the original. The original would in this case be the straight 0dB line.


    In the second picture is Mesa loaded down with Torpedo Live, without an IR ( a di signal) and a di profile of the same setup. It seem that the bass roll-off isn't present in the di profile, but in the profile with the cab, although there are some other differences (for example a dip around the 250Hz area).


    I refined these profiles with seven string guitar playing low muted power chords and also open chords.


    I used a looper pedal in front of Mesa/Kpa in which I had played riffs and single note lines. So no test signal of sine sweep or such.


    I would like to add that I am not trying to argue about anything, just trying to visualise what I am hearing and perhaps have some exchange of thoughts on this subject.


    Furthermore I am aware that in a mixing process a hi-pass is often applied much higher than where these differences are.

  • I've no idea how accurately the Kemper can profile an amp with a dummy load (the Torpedo plus IR), but it's fairly well known that it has trouble with the cascading gain of certain Mesa amps. Must be frustrating, but I don't know of any fix other than the whispers of workarounds that the commercial (and therefore regular) profilers use, as @MentaL hinted at above.

  • You don't need that in your mix anyway.
    And as Mr. Kemper says.. Use your ears, not your eyes!


    As I said:


    "...in a mixing process a hi-pass is often applied much higher than where these differences are."


    and


    "...trying to visualise what I am hearing and perhaps have some exchange of thoughts on this subject."

  • I've no idea how accurately the Kemper can profile an amp with a dummy load (the Torpedo plus IR), but it's fairly well known that it has trouble with the cascading gain of certain Mesa amps. Must be frustrating, but I don't know of any fix other than the whispers of workarounds that the commercial (and therefore regular) profilers use, as @MentaL hinted at above.


    It is a valid point that using a load and an IR instead of a real speaker and mic might affect the results. Though I have also used a real speaker cabinet and gotten same kind of results.

  • The kemper always lacks the low end dynamic and tightness, you could artificially enhance it though to compensate pre-profiling.


    It is good to know that you have also experienced this thing. To me it seems like there was a built in hi-pass filter going on in the Cab section of Kemper although I'm not sure if it is the reason for the lack of punch etc.


    I would be interested to know about our workarounds on this matter.

  • You don't need that in your mix anyway.
    And as Mr. Kemper says.. Use your ears, not your eyes!

    All I do is record and have a very trained ear when it comes to EQ. Kemper is missing some lows. Has nothing to do with "eyes".


    *Edit- I shouldn't say Kemper as I have not profiled myself. The profiles I have tried are missing it, and I have many.

  • Yeah, it's way too low to affect what these guys are talking about here.


    I hear it too - just a little weight missing in action.


    Whenever I hear this 'though, such as in A/B comparison videos, I always imagine the sounds in a mix and the negligible differences become redundant.

  • Yeah, it's way too low to affect what these guys are talking about here.


    I hear it too - just a little weight missing in action.


    Whenever I hear this 'though, such as in A/B comparison videos, I always imagine the sounds in a mix and the negligible differences become redundant.

    Its amazing as musicians how picky we have become with our mixes! My wife often asks me after I am in my office playing guitar for hours "how did it go?" Either I am completely disgusted with how my mix sounds or somewhat happy (until I listen to the mix the next day, then I am disgusted again). Then her typical reply is "Why don't you just play guitar and not record?" Thats a good question!

  • This phenomenon has been pointed out from even the earliest videos of the Kemper. The effect can be compensated by increasing the bass of the profile.


    Yes, it seems that you can compensate the lack of bass in the Cab section by increasing the bass control on the Amp section of KPA. Here is the same comparison, only this time the KPA's bass control was on 2. The sub 90Hz dip was reduced but the 100Hz bump was increased a little.

  • I remember reading of Deadpan's experiences when profiling his Ax8. He said that sometimes if the profile is lacking bass, he would increase the bass on the Reference amp while refining, which would trick the KPA into upping the bass in the profile. Maybe you could experiment with those kinds of techniques and let us know how you get on (incidentally, Andy Sneap has also mentioned tricking the KPA during refining to get closer to his amp sounds, too).

  • I remember reading of Deadpan's experiences when profiling his Ax8. He said that sometimes if the profile is lacking bass, he would increase the bass on the Reference amp while refining, which would trick the KPA into upping the bass in the profile. Maybe you could experiment with those kinds of techniques and let us know how you get on (incidentally, Andy Sneap has also mentioned tricking the KPA during refining to get closer to his amp sounds, too).


    Thanks for the tip, I'll have to try something like that.

  • I was using para and graphic eqs, sometimes together during refining. Took some effort but it worked. On amp eqs may or may not be enough.


    I might try using parametric or graphic since they are more precise than amps eq. Thanks!


    When I did tests converting IRs into kipr's with Cab maker I tried using Match eq that fixed the frequencies missing in the conversion. But since the conversion is, I quess, not a linear process, the results were varying.