Direct profiles vs. real tube amps

  • I don't have any real tube amps at present. I do have a Matrix GT1600FX and a Port City 2x12 OS Vertical with a Scumback M75/H75 combo. I've got a couple of questions around using the Kemper with an amp/cab approach vs. FRFR. 90+% of the time, I will use FRFR to play live. There may be occasion though on bigger stages or outdoors where I can wind up an amp. I was pondering the purchase of an OR50 just to have an amp (and profile it although not sure where do to loudness). Then it occurred to me that perhaps Kemper direct profiles into my Matrix/Port City would be pretty close. I've tested a bit with some MBritt merged profiles and some direct profiles from the community. It seems very promising with some but without an A/B, I'm not 100% sure.


    The other factor...if I wanted to make a direct profile of an amp, is the profiling method such that the best results will come from using the direct profile with cab I profiled it with or does the direct method truly separate the amp from the cab?

  • A Direct Profile is simply a profile taken using the output from a suitable DI (which can handle the output from the amp's speaker jack). This should be done while the cab is connected to the DI box's speaker output, in order for the profiler to capture the amp's interaction with the cab.


    As such, for a DIRECT profile, there is no cab.


    You may be thinking of a MERGED profile, in which the cab and amp are truly separated, but ONLY if you do things right. This means taking a direct profile (directly from the DI box), AND a "regular" profile using a mic on the cab, WITHOUT CHANGING ANY SETTINGS ON THE AMP. these two profiles are then "merged" as described in the manual, which is the process in where the kemper finds out where the amp stops and the cab begins.


    Does that make sense?


  • I think so. I would be making the direct profile then. I can't mic the cab at volume in my house. Maybe if I paid to go to a studio. Instead, I wanted to profile the OR50 amp itself so that I could run it into my Matrix to my cab. The cab will be the same one I hook to the DI to give it a load in this process.

  • Yeah, but there will be sound coming out of the cab while you profile anyway - just so you know :) but of course, the noise of doing a single profile will be much shorter than if you were to find a good mic spot etc etc :)


    I was thinking I could point the cab into the carpeted floor since I won't be mic'ing it. It's a closed back. We'll see. I'll talk to my neighbors first!


    Related...are non mic'd direct profiles more accurate/forgiving of the process? In reading up, I keep seeing people say that 95% of the free profiles stink and commercial profiles are a mixed bag. I guess I have a little fear of whether it takes an expert to profile for great results. For live FRFR, I've landed on MBritt profiles. I could gig with nothing other than the '70 Super Lead...really. For recorded stuff, they are a bit mellow and I like the sound of the Top Jimi profiles by themselves. For amp/cab, it's tough to say. I guess I'll be able to test it though soon enough.

  • Related...are non mic'd direct profiles more accurate/forgiving of the process? In reading up, I keep seeing people say that 95% of the free profiles stink and commercial profiles are a mixed bag.


    You could say that :) It cuts the mic position out of the equation, which is a BIG deal. Also, don't listen too much to what people say, tastes differ a lot. Plenty of stuff that is really popular is just not my cup of vodka, and vice versa.


    Find a tone you really like with the cab attached and everything, and then do the profiling. Test to see if you still like it :)

  • One of the benefits of Direct profiles is if you have a nice expensive rare tube head/amp that you don't want to take on the road or you don't want to deal with the unpredictability of getting your exact favorite sound night after night, then the the direct profile into Power amp into same speaker cabinet will give the same results.


    The second benefit is if you use it with impulse responses, you will get more authentic results because the direct profiles capture the speaker interaction that the Impulse response alone doesn't have (to get the direct profile you're using the speaker out of your amp, into direct box into Kemper keeping the speaker in the chain so the amp will have the proper normal impedance load from the speaker)


    So to answer the question directly, if you get a tube amp to where it sounds really good with your Port City 2x12, the resulting profile should be the same using the Matrix GT1600FX. I would also profile the Preamp of the tube amp and experiment if the Matrix GT1600FX coloring is giving inconsistent results I would even profile the tube pre- into Matrix GT1600FX if that sounds good and that for sure will be almost identical. Before I do all that, I would seek direct Pre-amp only profiles and try them with theMatrix GT1600FX and you might be pleasantly surprised that there would be no need to buy a tube amp.

    Edited 9 times, last by Dean_R ().