Kemper speaker shootout...

  • Thought I'd share my experience with 5 different options I've tried with the KPA for those of you (like me) obsess about available options!


    First, I didn't use an FRFR at all - I used two 1x12 cabs powered by a 50 watt Mesa Boogie tube power amp. I turned the cab sims off, of course. I played 6 gigs like this, and I liked it just fine. The reason I went this way is because I have QSC 1x12" powered speakers for my P.A. and didn't like the sound of the Kemper into it (in fact, I mic'd the 1x12's instead). I felt that the P.A. speaker sounded too "fake", not warm like a real amp.


    As soon as the Friedman ASM-12 came out, I thought I'd give it a try because of their reputation for good products. From the minute I plugged it in, I said "Holy crapola - where have you been all my life?" The sound was very real, very huge, and the different cabs had a distinctly different sounds. When I raked the strings, the speaker would "pump air" so to speak, like a real amp does. Did my first gig with it on a low speaker stand about chest level, with the lunchbox KPA on top. It sounded very loud to me being right behind me at that height, but the bandmates said it was a perfect volume and sounded awesome.


    I thought I was done, but my obsessive-compulsive nature (ya'll know what I mean) drove me to try other speakers, because the Friedman is HUGE and 54 lbs.


    Next I tried the Matrix Q12. What a disappointment! It was small and light for sure, but sounded boxy, small and for the price was a complete ripoff. Consider that the Friedman is cheaper and sounds 10x better. The Matrix went on the chopping block in about 1 hour.


    Next up, I thought I'd just get a small backup/portable speaker for short gigs where I can just "grab and go". I got the Laney IRTX, which is about 25 lbs. and under $400. Not bad at all at low volumes, but crank it up, and it loses the nice fidelity present in the Friedman. Of course, I didn't expect it to sound as big, but for $375, it's a good bedroom speaker or backup you can keep in your trunk if your main speaker blows up.


    Finally, after much searching, I found an Atomic CLR cabinet (not the wedge, the full cab). Paid $900. This one was almost identical in bottom end and "bigness" as the Friedman at first. But when you crank it up a lot, the high end gets a bit "ice-picky", but then again, I don't think I'll be running it that loud onstage if I mic it. What's nice about the Atomic is that it has different settings for different placements (on the floor, tilted, or on a stand). I have a tilt back stand, so it was perfect. Then, I tried it with both left/right outs to the two inputs of the Atomic and it REALLY shined because I didn't have to crank it up as much (thus no issue with the ice pick). On the form factor, it's much more like a real amp, 1/3 smaller than the Friedman, and about 8 lbs lighter. Easier to carry too, because of the handle placement on top (the Friedman has a side handle which makes it difficult to lug)


    So, my first gig with the Atomic is tonight, and I'll give my final opinion tomorrow. But it's damn close in tone.

  • That's the thing about ears - we all have different ones! I didn't compare the Matrix side by side with the Atomic, but with the Friedman and the Matrix sounded very small and had a flubby low end to my ears.

  • I did a lot of research, listening, reading before deciding Atomic was the way to go. Everyone that hears my setup immediately exclaims its the best tone they've heard in person and yearns to buy a similar setup.


    Alas I hear Atomic are quite hard to get in some areas, I had to bring mine from UK into Australia, last I heard there were shortages of a key component and stock was out most places - grab one if you can!

  • Gigged with the Atomic tonight on a custom made tilt back stand I have, and it was winner! Sounded equally as good as the Friedman because I ran it mic'd into the front end and monitors so I didn't need to crank it up really loud. But the tone was spot on.

  • Gigged with the Atomic tonight on a custom made tilt back stand I have, and it was winner! Sounded equally as good as the Friedman because I ran it mic'd into the front end and monitors so I didn't need to crank it up really loud. But the tone was spot on.


    If you ever get the opportunity, Bronchick, I recommend you try out the XiTone 1x12 Wedge. I have the passive version, which I use with my powered KPA rack. The XiTone kicks all kinds of arse. Something about the Emminence based coaxial set-up. The best way I can describe it, is that it is an FRFR monitor that sounds and plays more like a traditional 1x12 guitar cab.


    In any event, congrats with the Friedman. I know the Atomic CLR is also highly thought of and respected, here on the KPA forum...however, it never was on my radar. I couldn't bring myself to patronize the company (Atomic) due to one of the "personalities" associated with the CLR. And that is all I will say on that matter.


    Cheers,
    John

  • Ok, John, just when I was happy, you had to stick that idea in my head and stir up my Obsessive-Compulsive disorder!


    :D


    I saw a passive one on Reverb that I almost bought, but it seems like there's only on speaker in it? I don't have the powered Kemper, but was thinking of getting the after-market one as a backup.

  • Ok, John, just when I was happy, you had to stick that idea in my head and stir up my Obsessive-Compulsive disorder!


    :D


    I saw a passive one on Reverb that I almost bought, but it seems like there's only on speaker in it? I don't have the powered Kemper, but was thinking of getting the after-market one as a backup.


    Hello Bronchick,


    I assume you meant to type: "...but it seems like there's only one speaker in it?"


    No, there are 2 drivers...one low/mid range woofer, and one high range. The XiTone is based on a 2-way coaxial arrangement (similar to the Atomic CLR). In other words, you have 1 x 12" driver (woofer), and 1 x high frequency compression driver (tweeter), which is mounted in the center axis, directly behind the woofer cone. My XiTone passive wedge uses an Eminence Beta-12CX main driver with an Eminence ASD:1001 high frequency compression driver.


    Cheers,
    John


  • It looks like the Xitone monitor is based on a design issued by Eminence themselves:


    http://www.eminence.com/great-uses-for-coaxial-products/


    I was curious how that configuration would work for the Kemper. It's good to know that it works here. I might have to whip one up. :thumbup:

    I hate emojis, but I hate being misunderstood more. :)

  • It looks like the Xitone monitor is based on a design issued by Eminence themselves:


    http://www.eminence.com/great-uses-for-coaxial-products/


    I was curious how that configuration would work for the Kemper. It's good to know that it works here. I might have to whip one up. :thumbup:


    Hello Klappy,


    Indeed, Eminence provides comprehensive specifications and guidance for construction of an acoustical enclosure suitable for their BETA-12CX coaxial system, as well as cross-over recommendations. Eminence coaxial speakers are used in consumer and professional audio applications (thanks for including that excellent link, by the way).


    I am sure XiTone availed themselves of Eminence's online resources and DIY instructions, when developing their Eminence-based speaker cabinet/monitors.


    Cheers,
    John

  • Ok, so I finally got my hands on a Xitone 1x12 powered cab and here's my thoughts:


    1. Louder than it looks, much louder!


    2. Tone and range are pretty damn good with just one speaker, no tweeter. Makes me wonder if an upgrade is available in that the speaker they use int it is only $79 retail.


    3. Sounds a hair "boxy" on some patches, which isn't surprising considering the size of it. Thus, I see no reason why I shouldn't rip out the speaker and electronics and shove it into a nice mid-sized,1x12" Mojotone cab I have lying around since they weigh about the same. I emailed the dude to ask him about any problems with doing it. I'll report back.

  • Hello Bronchick,
    I think you may be confused...the XiTone does not have a single speaker / driver. It is a coaxial-based system, with an HF compression driver (tweeter) installed directly behind the main driver. Please re-read my earlier post (dated August 16) in which I replied to Klappy.


    Cheers,
    John

    Edited once, last by Tritium ().

  • Ahaaaaaaaaa.... thanks.


    But, did speak with the dude at Xitone, and he said there's no issue with repurposing it into a regular cab. FYI, he said he makes active cabs, but doesn't have it on his website.

  • whippinpost91850 - my only gripe with the Atomic cab is the weight - is the Neo speaker worth the upgrade in terms tone (better?) and how much weight does it shave off? Thanks

    Sorry I just saw this long lost post. Tone wise they are the same. But weight is cut by a lot to 31 lbs. Paul

  • I wonder how much of the room is a factor in evaluating these, plus placement (i.e. near a wall, etc) that might yield differences of opinion.


    I personally like going to a 2x12 cabinet with a power amp. But I record direct via SPDIF. So there is some getting used to the same profiles sounding different in those differing applications.

  • I really wish i could make some sounds for you guys from my Mission Gemini 2 Stereo FRFR, (2X12)
    You can piggy back a second to get a 4X12 too


    Its an active speaker and the Stereo ow boy, waaay different from the Monitor out
    MISSION ARE MAKING PASSIVE NEW 4x12'S FOR THE POWER HEAD. (check website)


    I just gotta plug the Gemini its unbelievable guys.


    Ash

    Have a beer and don't sneer. -CJ. Two non powered Kempers -Two mission stereo FRFR Cabs - Ditto X4 -TC electronic Mimiq.