Basically it'll be like a client/server with a call back to authentic the profile. This will never happen
Not sure what you mean with client-server architecture, but any solution would require involvement of the Kemper company.
A big profiles theft!
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As many have pointed out... This was always going to happen; it's an unfortunate side-affect of business/products within the digital realm basically.
From our perspective; you just have to trust that your buyers are purchasing for the right reasons and that users will respect the work that goes in to your product and only buy direct from the vendor.
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That's not precisely what I was saying -- more that all you can do is hope that your products are being purchased for the right reasons (joy and to utilise) rather than the wrong reasons (to sell on as work that isn't theirs to make a buck...)
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For a copy protection Kemper would need to spent some efforts for realization.
An identification system based on the serial no or an owner identification would not be so difficult to make.
But it would need a distinctive feature for free and commercial profiles and in some form a registration as a vendor by Kemper.
A solution without Kemper seems for me not to be possible. I think this would be a way to avoid software piracy.To appeal for fairness is probably not so effective.
Another way is the networking of professional users to exchange information and to take joint legal action. It also a way to make it public..
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On the other hand...is it possible to consider illegal reselling/sending profiles to other people IF they aren't protected in any way? I mean, can you take legal action against those people?
Because if it is legal, this whole thread is pointless and first of all there is the need of a protection (and only Kemper can do it I guess).
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There's nothing to be done tbh...just like with music,software and movies for example. If there is no public sharing/selling...there will always be an "underground" one, behind the curtain. As far as I know there's a "private" group of people sharing all profiles since 2014.
This is just a couple of "stupid" people going public and selling them. There was a couple of them in my country exactly the same way. And still there's nothing you can do to prevent this. Who's gonna sue them!? We can all Thank God that torrent sites are shutting one by one slowly, otherwise...well you know the the rest!
Soon everyone will have all profile packs from everyone for a couple of $$$. And by posting this kind of info will just encourage a lot of people to search them online and by everything for who knows how much less money from those guys. Maybe someone already did it
See what happened with Guido trying to stop this? He just posted again without fear of what might happen to him, because he knows that h's perfectly safe! He or they can sell or share as long as they want to! And Kemper won't do anything regarding protection! -
SpinnerDeluxe I hope this was just a joke.
I hate those bad boys as well. But , no, I am serious about that.
I am quite sure that people who sell their bought profiles keep copies for themselves.
Especialy those that spend hundreds. I don't doubt that some did not even sell their KPA.
The ones that did would keep copies in case they buy another KPA.Could well be. Then it is also illegal to sell the profiles "second hand".
And then again: who of the profile sellers is giving a fair share to the inventor of the analog tube circuit? Dont get me wrong, I am not at all against it. I just want to show that the current system is good for lawyers, cause where shall we start, where shall we end. This system is not god for sellers and customers.
* dongle/iLok
I once had a very expensive pro license for a DAW. I was allowed to install on 2 computers, studio and nortebook (for travel). It had a dongle. ONE dongle. Guess what? The other day I was remote with my notebook and the dongle was in my studios PC. Not good. At that time it was not easy to get 16 reliable tracks in parallel out of a notebook. And guess what: the dongle decreased the performance by a couple of tracks!!! So me, the honest customer got harmed twice. And yes, dongles can die. Third time harmed - just because one is honest.
My current DAW is running right from a USB-Stick! No install necessary! No copy protection. Small business license available. Perfect. Did I pay my fees? Of course.
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But, if anybody can copy and send profiles, in the future people will download them from torrent and nobody will feel the need to buy them at full price from the sellers. Just like for plugins or music.
Ehr... it is already happening... it's irrelevant whether it's called Torrent or a Share group somewhere in the world. The KPA community is so small and "vertical" that anyone can get to know everything if they want
I hope this was just a joke.
I guess you'd be surprised by how well this would work on the long run. I understand your anger against illegal resellers but the point here would be to max profits out, not to punish each and every moocher. Look at the moon, not at the finger!
Its not about keeping the copies it's about reselling them over and over again
Well, keeping the copies is what's needed in order to resell more than once, and it's actually the core point of all the discussion!
In this case Kemper would pay money to protect the sells of 3rd party companies... I personally don't see that coming.
This
I just had this idea if one could implement solution that given profile could be played on the Kemper with specified serial number.
This would make things complicated in case someone legally buys rigs from a previous user...
Basically it'll be like a client/server with a call back to authentic the profile. This will never happen
... and this.
is it possible to consider illegal reselling/sending profiles to other people IF they aren't protected in any way?
You should distinguish between the legitimacy of performing an action and the persecutability (?) of that action. When you purchase, you sign an agreement with the rig's author.
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who of the profile sellers is giving a fair share to the inventor of the analog tube circuit? Dont get me wrong, I am not at all against it. I just want to show that the current system is good for lawyers, cause where shall we start, where shall we end.
I am afraid you're barking at the wrong tree here... you seem to invoke a king of "natural compensation" between two otherwise "unfair" actions... but this is not the case.
First of all, a sound is not protected by copyright. If it was, we should pay a fee every time we use an amp, a mic, a cable, a guitar in public. Implying that since profilers force somehow the law then we should gloss over illegal resellers is really forcing the interpretation IMO!
As a general rule, in the field of Law, two wrongs don't make a right! Two wrongs are separately persecuted instead
Second: as I wrote, when you purchase a rig you sign an agreement with the seller. If you don't like its terms, you just don't sign it.
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As a general rule, in the field of Law, two wrongs don't make a right! Two wrongs are separately persecuted instead
Yes, but only in the sick system of what we call "legal practice" nowadays. Please do understand my words as a fundamental critics of how all that patent / copyright / brand / trade mark thingie is handled. A lawyer once told me: "You are not a lawyer. Thats why you are confusing moral, fairness and ethics with legality." Exactly, my lawyer friend, this is the proof that this legal train is really going the wrong direction.
Second: as I wrote, when you purchase a rig you sign an agreement with the seller. If you don't like its terms, you just don't sign it.
Thats exactly what I did. I accept the legal system I am living in - even though I would like it to be better.
(I am not theoretical here. For the bigger part I make my living with software development. And I had to spend serious time and money to protect myself against false claims of patent violation and such)
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I didn't say that an iLok could be THE ultimate protection (because I see the risk of damage i.e.) but maybe some other SW protection. But I'm not a programer, so I don't have the knowledge here. But thinking: "Well, You can't do anything against it, just leave as it is, I don't care" etc. This can't be a solution!
It's kind of a Snowball system that could damage the Profile market and at the end ALL us KPA users. -
First of all, a sound is not protected by copyright. If it was, we should pay a fee every time we use an amp, a mic, a cable, a guitar in public.
Add air to it first and foremost. We humans use it as a freeware sound waves carrier
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You can't do anything against it, just leave as it is, I don't care" etc. This can't be a solution!
It's kind of a Snowball system that could damage the Profile market and at the end ALL us KPA users.You are doing the perfectly right thing here. Its a small community. This means: it is kinda self curing - to a certain degree. If I were about to buy commercial profiles, I would be happy to be informed this way. I bet 99% of the people around here would not buy after you told us about those gangsters.
And in general: those things happend since mankind showed up. None of the essential businesses were killed so far, but some had to shrink to a fair and reasonable size. So, don't worry...
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I know there's a grey zone here and i'm not speaking about sharing profiles with (close) friends. I'm speaking of reselling them over and over again...In other words making money with other people's work. That's absolutely unfair, disrespectful and criminal.
Its not about keeping the copies it's about reselling them over and over again...In other words making money with other people's work
Redundant, but this is what it's all about. Most of us just can't stand this slime-ball behaviour.Reading the debate, I grow ever-more weary and at this point I'm inclined to believe that there's no cure for the slime-ball factor; we're stuck with it, I'm afraid.
It's much like shoplifting. Every retailer knows he or she's gonna lose some stock and therefore suffer a reduced margin due to the slime-ball factor. He or she relies, therefore, on the good nature of the majority of his or her customers. The day this majority is lost to the slime-balls will be the day it's all over... for all of us.
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Binding a bought profile to a single device would be a loss of comfort in relation to the possibility to take your personal KPA backup with you and use it on any other KPA.
A compromise might be watermarking the profiles, so the creator of a profile could include an individual watermark for each customer.
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Binding a bought profile to a single device would be a loss of comfort in relation to the possibility to take your personal KPA backup with you and use it on any other KPA.
Great call, 120dBRockNRoll! I meant to mention this but forgot to.A compromise might be watermarking the profiles, so the creator of a profile could include an individual watermark for each customer.
The problem with that, I think, is that a call-back / two-way line of communication would need to be established with every vendor the user has purchased from. Unless the Kemper then remembered (i.e.: tagged) which Profiles were kosher by storing the watermark and verifying matches, these vendors' sites would have to be communicated with every time one of their Profiles was called up in Rig Manager for audition, creating much unnecessary web traffic and potential for hiccups and delays within RM, unless I'm missing something. If a site's down, you're SOOL as far as being able to audition any profiles purchased therefrom is concerned.The only solution to this that I can think of would be for RM to store the licenses, which would obviously require coding by the Kemper Team™.
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wow, Im sooo late tot he party here.
Hey to all btw: - its been a long time, but dont worry Im still alive & kicking : )
Anyway, this is a distressing thread. yes I know pirates like to do there thing and piss all over the working guys to satisfy there own selfs & share there hacks with others, this is not cool. but the fact that others are making money from my (and others) hard work is beyond words.
I noticed this few weeks ago when someone sent me a email, so I have been watching some people at least. - I spoke with paypal, and there is things that can be done. but to do this you need the guys paypal address to take any action forward, and proof that he/she is steeling from you and making a profit. - this means buying said profiles, of what Im really not willing to do.
Copy Protection on profiles wont work, not in the long run, as through research this is a hindrance and puts buyers off more than ease of use. - we can protect ourselves (sites) the best we can with top grade security, but sure whilst this keeps hackers out.- it still does not prevent anyone sharing what they have previously paid for.. and then that person sharing.. so on and so forth. - this we cant ever do anything about sadly.
Im always looking for ways to protect us as sellers, but every road I head towards ends in a dead end.
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Not sure if it's any comfort to you Andy, but I honestly believe that what I said earlier holds true - we have to rely on the good nature of the majority. Bricks-and-mortar stores have to do this in wearing the constant drain of stocks and profits by shoplifters, for example.
Hey to all btw: - its been a long time, but dont worry Im still alive & kicking : )
Great to know, as always, mate. Tried to log into your forum the other day, but it seems to be missing from the new site. Is it no longer there? Too much work to maintain / moderate?we can protect ourselves (sites) the best we can with top grade security
IIRC, Guido's copped 2400 malicious hits to his site so far this year. I've no idea as to what level of protection he has, but it's food for thought anyway.
