no delay update no editor still

Quote from SpinnerDeluxe

You took the words right out of my mouth!
My typical situation: I am in my rehearsal room with my guitar / amp / and a playback. My notebook is not around. i start playing...

Eventually I find that my delay mix is a bit to heavy. I press/hold the delay button, turn one knob like on a desk, press save/replace: BINGO! Sound optimized for now and forever.

Same situation with my L6 HD500 in the past. Damn, the Notebook is not here. Cant fire up the editor. Should I try it with the sucking interface kneeing on the floor right above that kick-plate? No, lets refine that later... problem NOT solved, not now and very often not forever.

i LOVE my computers when I mix in the DAW. I HATE my computers when its just time to play.

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This!

Quote from dahla

This!

For "Live" use while actually out in the wild then an editor is only going to be of minimal use. But then so is the whole interface, by the time you are out playing gigs the Kemper may as well just be a black box with no controls at all on it.

It should be pretty self evident that this is not the situation where you would use an editor. It's like saying you don't need any tools in your garage because when you're driving you don't want to tweak the engine timings. This is a given (unless you're a race driver). Or worse it's like saying "I can get wherever I want by foot, people shouldn't have bikes, don't invest in their development!". Not everyone travels the same path.

Now I wouldn't take a laptop to a gig but I might take my phone. I think quite a lot of people do and I bet there would be a few people who might prefer to use a well designed interface on their phone or tablet to the one on the front of their Kemper for quick edits.

Having an editor isn't going to change or reduce the physical interface of the Kemper. Comparing the HD500 to the Kemper, the HD is a bit more work to use without an editor but so what? Adding an editor to the Kemper won't change that. It isn't going to suddenly make it's front panel suck (unless it's been sucking all along and we've all been in denial about it). Having an editor just adds another option, predominantly for before you get out on a stage or if you're in a studio. And if that doesn't describe your situation then congratulations! Chances are you are in a well off enough position that you're just depending on others that do this stuff for you and they are the ones that would probably love to have that editor.

I should add that I'm not someone that Tweaks either but I love a good software editor. Tweaking to me is defined by poor interface rather than pattern behavior. If you had to dive into menus to adjust bass, mid, treble and gain on the Kemper then just to set up your basic tone stack you would be a "tweaker". Because that stuff is on the front of the unit and you can instantly and easily access it, it's not tweaking to dial in some gain to most people or to pick an amp. Inefficient interface equals tweaking, stuff where the rest of the band is waiting around while you are troubleshooting your signal chain, that's tweaking. For me to set up a rig should not require or involve "tweaking", once I am playing I do not tweak my tones. 99% of the time I don't use any FX apart from a touch of reverb. But that 1% of the time when I do use FX, or when I find there is something in the tone I want to adjust that goes beyond bass, mid, treble and gain. Then an editor would be invaluable.

I have to admit that I would love to have a good editor for my Kemper. Still, it is a want, not a need.

I had a really great editor for my ole Digitech 2120. Any combination of parallel and series efx I could dream up could be graphically created.

Too bad it sounded like crap

I realize that there are very good products out today that compete favorably with the Kemper, but I suspect that most guitar players (not all) will make their final purchasing decision based on tone ..... not the editor.

I also want to re-iterate what others have said. It isn't just that the Kemper has good tone, it is that it is just sooooo damn easy to get good tone out of it.

My belief is that the Kemper team will provide very competitive delays and verbs (compared to competing products and stand alone pedals) over the next year. In the mean time, the delay's and verbs in the KPA are pretty darned good as they are. Certainly more than good enough for live usage. I am just happy that I can look forward to even better efx built right into my KPA in the future ..... for free.

Based on tone? My Kemper stays about 4 feet away from my Mac. I have "based" my having to scoot back and forth from that mac to Kemper, on my comfort zone, the less scooting the better. I want that editor and that has "nothing" to do with how Kemper sounds either.

Could a set of MIDI knobs replace the need for an editor? If you get a big controller, you'd have instant access to any parameter you want. The old 64-knob Doepfer Drehbank comes to mind. Can the KPA assign all amp and FX parameters to MIDI CC's? Seems like physical knobs would be better than a mouse and a laptop anyway.

Quote from Klappy

Could a set of MIDI knobs replace the need for an editor? If you get a big controller, you'd have instant access to any parameter you want. The old 64-knob Doepfer Drehbank comes to mind. Can the KPA assign all amp and FX parameters to MIDI CC's? Seems like physical knobs would be better than a mouse and a laptop anyway.

This is a great idea, but it would require the knobs to transmit sysex messages rather than midi CCs. The midi CCs only cover a few features within the Kemper, if you want to get down to editing of parameters, you'll have to send sysex to access the stuff buried in menus.

It wouldn't replace the need for a software based editor. Editors solve the problem of having to have a million physical controls, they alllow you to do things beyond merely changing parameter values for fx and the amp block such as selection of stomp/fx/cabs etc and reordering, very quick access to presets, searching and filtering, even the setup of custom interfaces to expose only what you want.

Editors are about workflow, the point is that you don't have to use the Kempers front panel, so therefore you don't really want another front panel taking up space to have to work with. You want to be able to stay on your computer/tablet/phone, control things from there and take advantage of the benefits you get from that as opposed to physical interfaces (otherwise if we wanted that we'd simply all be using real pedal boards and none of the onboard fx, and "enjoying" having to to rewire everything each time we wanted to change the order).

The only point that matters is an editor is an option that is viable and the tech readily available.

An editor is another arm. It is the big window. The 80's are long over and we can see and act by a bigger image. We don't need to drive a car in the winter snow with the scraped 3" hole through the frost on the windshield. Everything has an editor now, even a freaking refrigerator! Anyone that says that they can reach over and twist some knobs and sift through some sub menus faster than they can point and click is insane and mentally outdated. The tiny screens and buttons are for form factor. You make due with the space you are allowed for your physical product. It is not the only option for control and shouldn't be in this decade. Those who say they can make do, why did you buy a Kemper?? Make do with your old system! Why did you upgrade to Kemper? Oh, flexibility! I see... But then flexibility has its limits, right? Haha...

The foot pedal is an editor. It just has another tiny screen. Useful obviously because it is designed for the foot, but same idea. Eventually, bigger screens will be at your feet or on top / in your rack/stack, screens are cheap now. in 5 or ten years, guitarists will look at the comments of some of you and wonder.

Quote from Per

It wouldn't replace the need for a software based editor. Editors solve the problem of having to have a million physical controls, they alllow you to do things beyond merely changing parameter values for fx and the amp block such as selection of stomp/fx/cabs etc and reordering, very quick access to presets, searching and filtering, even the setup of custom interfaces to expose only what you want.

Editors are about workflow, the point is that you don't have to use the Kempers front panel, so therefore you don't really want another front panel taking up space to have to work with. You want to be able to stay on your computer/tablet/phone, control things from there and take advantage of the benefits you get from that as opposed to physical interfaces (otherwise if we wanted that we'd simply all be using real pedal boards and none of the onboard fx, and "enjoying" having to to rewire everything each time we wanted to change the order).

I get you @Per but since Kemper Profiler does not follow the scheme of "traditional" modellers where you have 32, 64, 100 amps and cabs baked into the PROM - having ~8500 amps and 8500 cabs (just on RXchange) makes it close to impossible to use in a known workflow, where you construct your signal chain from pieces. Add sync times between computer and KPA to it and... If you want to read my thesis on it, I've done some analysis while back ---> Can we please get some kind of Kemper Editor Software for your computer

On previous digital products I used to be a tweaking addict - I would go into every sub menu going. A lot of this behaviour was driven by the sounds being 'not quite there'

The Kemper cured me of that because the core sounds are a good match for what my ears actually want. But.... An editor would still be very useful, even for someone like me. My tweaking would not be due to dis-satisfaction but rather from creativity and ease of use.

And that's what an editor could do for me. Having easy to find FX chains that you can just drop on to a commercial rig whereby the chain instantly knows where you want everything with the profiler remote. That kind of thing....

I recall the time before Rig Manager - there were lots of people on here saying that no computer software was ever needed because the Kemper itself is very intuitive. Yes, it's intuitive but how many here would honestly say they'd like to give up Rig Manager? It didn't make anything extra possible vs what you could do before but it did make a whole bunch of things much, much easier. TBH, the Rig Manager took away a lot of my itch for an editor but not all of it - it'd still make the product better I think.

That's my point really - some folks seem to perceive the desire for an editor as a dissatisfaction with the product and a desire to tweak to a ridiculous amount (such as the perception I have of being an Axe FX user - my perception could be wrong of course ). For people who are tweak addicts then of course an editor would please them in this way. For me, it's about making the experience even easier and being able to duplicate pleasing settings in a manner that works with my brain. Anyone that is recording with a Kemper (which will be most of us?) will be used to a DAW with plugins open all over the place on a decent sized screen. Who would gladly go back to a few lines of text on an LCD display like the old portastudios?

Please do not take this as a complaint - it isn't. My Kemper is a source of constant joy to me when I use it. I'm just trying to show why I'd like one in an ideal world. If I don't get one, I'll live but my Kemper time would be better with one.

Quote from skoczy

I get you @Per but since Kemper Profiler does not follow the scheme of "traditional" modellers where you have 32, 64, 100 amps and cabs baked into the PROM - having ~8500 amps and 8500 cabs (just on RXchange) makes it close to impossible to use in a known workflow, where you construct your signal chain from pieces. Add sync times between computer and KPA to it and... If you want to read my thesis on it, I've done some analysis while back ---> Can we please get some kind of Kemper Editor Software for your computer

Any competent programmer will find a way to work around these "problems".

Quote from Nemo13

The only point that matters is an editor is an option that is viable and the tech readily available.

An editor is another arm. It is the big window. The 80's are long over and we can see and act by a bigger image. We don't need to drive a car in the winter snow with the scraped 3" hole through the frost on the windshield. Everything has an editor now, even a freaking refrigerator! Anyone that says that they can reach over and twist some knobs and sift through some sub menus faster than they can point and click is insane and mentally outdated. The tiny screens and buttons are for form factor. You make due with the space you are allowed for your physical product. It is not the only option for control and shouldn't be in this decade. Those who say they can make do, why did you buy a Kemper?? Make do with your old system! Why did you upgrade to Kemper? Oh, flexibility! I see... But then flexibility has its limits, right? Haha...

The foot pedal is an editor. It just has another tiny screen. Useful obviously because it is designed for the foot, but same idea. Eventually, bigger screens will be at your feet or on top / in your rack/stack, screens are cheap now. in 5 or ten years, guitarists will look at the comments of some of you and wonder.

I believe that most people, including myself, bought the Kemper because of the great tone it can produce. The only feature that was mandatory for me was the ability to use a foot controller in performance mode so I could do live shows with the product and replace my very very heavy and bulky VHT tube amp gear.

I agree that an editor would further enhance the product; however, given the choice, I would prefer the new delays and verbs be worked on first.

If Kemper had infinite resources, I am sure we would already have an editor. Sadly, no company has infinite resources ..... and Kemper is a pretty small company in a sea of monsters.

I think they are doing pretty darned good with their product. It is still the best darned tone machine that money can buy IMO. An editor would make it better, but it is already the best. Hard to complain too much about that.

Quote from fredrikn

Any competent programmer will find a way to work around these "problems".

Sure, but a really competent programmer would not even start to develop an editor if he is not sure that he can succeed in the end. There is nothing more frustrating than working half a year on a community based software and then the manufacturer rolls his own thing (I been through that with editors I created).

This uncertainty is the main complaint. Either Kemper should tell us that there never will be an official editor so the community can put all effort into this project or tell us hat it's on the to do list. Then we all can patiently wait.

Quote from Rome

Sure, but a really competent programmer would not even start to develop an editor if he is not sure that he can succeed in the end. There is nothing more frustrating than working half a year on a community based software and then the manufacturer rolls his own thing (I been through that with editors I created).

Is there an API for USB and the Kemper? Documented?

Quote from OneEng1

I believe that most people, including myself, bought the Kemper because of the great tone it can produce. The only feature that was mandatory for me was the ability to use a foot controller in performance mode so I could do live shows with the product and replace my very very heavy and bulky VHT tube amp gear.
I agree that an editor would further enhance the product; however, given the choice, I would prefer the new delays and verbs be worked on first.

If Kemper had infinite resources, I am sure we would already have an editor. Sadly, no company has infinite resources ..... and Kemper is a pretty small company in a sea of monsters.

I think they are doing pretty darned good with their product. It is still the best darned tone machine that money can buy IMO. An editor would make it better, but it is already the best. Hard to complain too much about that.

You nailed the whole thing in just one very good post..no need for me to start again..it is all about resources,manpower and these "sea full of monsters"..

@Nemo

Friend..reading this forum and the request for solving this issue with the "lag in the remote display" when changing rigs and the answer of the KPA-team that this can be solved only at cost of also a lag in the audio while changing the rigs can tell us a lot about the problems of such a great sounding but very complex tool like the KPA.

I dont know anything about these issues.But obviously there is definitly a "relationship" between the complexity of the UI and the quality of sound of our profiler..for me the quality of sound is everything and..enough said.

I just dont want to believe that the KPA team does not "give us" the editor because they are to lazy to do it or to inept to do it..the whole issue (of not having an editor) must have its logical reasons and this is enough for me not even to ask further questions.Again..sound quality first..everything else is not as important.

Maybe I'm just dumb, but what benefit would a computer sitting on top of a kemper have? every knob and function is easily found on the front. Click and drag would be a much worse solution.

What does the kemper's design have to do with the 80's and 90's? (totally lost with this argument)

Simple easy to use knobs and buttons are key. additional computers and screens just to have additional computers and screens - is dumb.

Quote from chriscalandro

Maybe I'm just dumb, but what benefit would a computer sitting on top of a kemper have? every knob and function is easily found on the front. Click and drag would be a much worse solution.

What does the kemper's design have to do with the 80's and 90's? (totally lost with this argument)

Simple easy to use knobs and buttons are key. additional computers and screens just to have additional computers and screens - is dumb.

In your opinion.

I saw similar arguments a few years back before Rig Manager came out, stating that it was easy to move / copy performances etc. Whilst it is entirely possible to do everything on the front panel of the Kemper (and this is brilliant in a gig situation) it is bonkers to suggest that a PC based screen where you can see everything at once wouldn't speed things up because it just would.... Rig manager transformed my experience of using the Kemper TBH and turned something that was a laborious pain into something dead simple.

Furthermore, everyone works differently. You could argue that other things should be developed first and you may be right; indeed Kemper are currently working on delays as they've said so. So once they've done the FX and they are then as good as the amps? Well, I'm just wondering what else there is to do with this device other than an editor? I know there will always be 'something' but what would be the harm? It's clear that a lot of people would like one so what's the harm?

Nikos: An editor is not running via the unit. It runs via the PC. The foot controller is not self powered by a computer. You see? Also, I don't believe I called the Kemper team 'lazy or inept' I have no idea where you are getting this.

chriscalandro: I have already explained the obvious advantage of a huge screen and point and click, etc. You can really load up a big computer screen with options. Anything can be better. For example, would you like to have a digital camera with a 0.5" green screen with a few adjustments on display and all other adjustments controlled with the old knobs and dials and buttons? Or would you go for the newer cameras with a full 4" color touch screen? Also back to TC Electronic, how cool is their editor for little pedals? It can go way deeper than just the few knobs if needed.

Anyway, if you can't see the advantage you simply don't have the ability too. And that's ok. Some people are stubborn that way. All who are against it, when it finally comes, will be the first ones to RAVE about ~what a great idea~ to come out with it and how you then could not live without it like the typical consumer.

Tweakers need an editor (they really do). Non-tweakers don't need an editor (they really don't).

I'm a non-tweaker. I'd much rather have a single rack space hardware unit with 12 assignable knobs with OLED scribble strips that plugged into the ethernet port. I'd assign some of the deep amp parameters and a studio EQ to it for live use and rehearsals where minor tonal adjustments are needed on the fly. I don't have a computer with me ever in these two places, nor do I want one there.

Quote from Nemo13

You can really load up a big computer screen with options. Anything can be better. For example, would you like to have a digital camera with a 0.5" green screen with a few adjustments on display and all other adjustments controlled with the old knobs and dials and buttons? Or would you go for the newer cameras with a full 4" color touch screen?

My wife's cell phone has an available docking station for a full-sized monitor, mouse, and keyboard. We are NEVER going to use that feature.