JCM800 "Dookie" mod (cascading gain mod)

  • Have any third parties/professional studios made a profile of a JCM800 with a cascading gain mod like the famous "Dookie" mod used by Green Day?


    I love JCM800 profiles for the majority of my higher gain tones but haven't seen this mod profiled yet. I know that turning up the gain or hitting the front with a boost gives a similar effect, but it's a little different than profiling an amp that has the mod. Has anyone seen this mod profiled?

  • I believe Sam Pura did some profiles of his. It was part of the creative live class, but you'd have to research it to verify those were the profiles you were looking for... and of course you'd have to pay for the class to gain access to them.


    Creative live


    Hope this helps some.

  • I believe Sam Pura did some profiles of his. It was part of the creative live class, but you'd have to research it to verify those were the profiles you were looking for... and of course you'd have to pay for the class to gain access to them.


    Creative live


    Hope this helps some.

    That is actually quite helpful. I'm looking at the description but I don't see confirmation anywhere that the profiles he makes are given for download. Maybe I'll email them to check. The price for the lessons will be a good deal if it comes with the profiles, but I don't want to gamble with the money without confirming the profiles are included.

  • I'd also be very interested in that.


    Actually, I bought a Dookie modded plexi two years ago from Green Day's former guitar tech Bill Schneider, but I actually didn't really like it. It was way too trebly while lacking mids, altough I played it through three different Marshall cabs with different speakers. Don't want to say he did something wrong, but I just didn't like it. However, a good friend of mine has one plexi modded by Martin Golub from L.A. Sound Design, and mine definitely didn't sound like his amp (his is actually the one you can hear on youtube here). Never asked him if he would let me profile it, but I doubt it (he's always been very "egoistic" in terms of his amp).


    Cheers,
    Luke


    Edit.: LOL. I just watched the video and this dude has the profile of a "Dexter" amp - these are actually Bill Schneider's amps.

  • Just been looking into this as I was unsure as to what a cascaded mod JCM 800 for the Dookie album was, seeing that a JCM 800 already has cascading gain stages same as any Marshall 2203 JMP Master Volume post late1976 would do (it's essentially the same amp in a different head shell)


    From what I'm reading Dookie was a modded Marshall 1959 Super Lead, which is a non master volume amp when stock, which would need a pre phase master volume and the pre-amp gain stages cascaded to make it sound very similar to a JCM800/JMP 2203, this is a very common mod for non master volume Marshall's to get more pre amp gain and saturation at lower volumes.


    So unless you are after a profile of the specific mod on a 1959 Super Lead done by was it Bob Bradshaw I'm reading??? a decent JMP 2303 or JCM800 profile should be all you need unless Billy Joe's amp was more than just as cascading gain stage mod.

  • That is actually quite helpful. I'm looking at the description but I don't see confirmation anywhere that the profiles he makes are given for download. Maybe I'll email them to check. The price for the lessons will be a good deal if it comes with the profiles, but I don't want to gamble with the money without confirming the profiles are included.

    I can confirm that the profiles are included !

  • Just been looking into this as I was unsure as to what a cascaded mod JCM 800 for the Dookie album was, seeing that a JCM 800 already has cascading gain stages same as any Marshall 2203 JMP Master Volume post late1976 would do (it's essentially the same amp in a different head shell)


    From what I'm reading Dookie was a modded Marshall 1959 Super Lead, which is a non master volume amp when stock, which would need a pre phase master volume and the pre-amp gain stages cascaded to make it sound very similar to a JCM800/JMP 2203, this is a very common mod for non master volume Marshall's to get more pre amp gain and saturation at lower volumes.


    So unless you are after a profile of the specific mod on a 1959 Super Lead done by was it Bob Bradshaw I'm reading??? a decent JMP 2303 or JCM800 profile should be all you need unless Billy Joe's amp was more than just as cascading gain stage mod.


    Wow, I was completely wrong. I thought a JCM800 was the starting point, and that gain was added from there. That probably explains why I haven't been finding that tone as easily as I thought I could. Thank you for clarifying this!

  • Don't take this as gospel but the quick reading I did on his amp for Dookie this morning indicates that he used a modified Marshall Super Lead.


    An old 1959 Marshall Super Lead with the 4 inputs has no master volume, just a Vol 1 and 2 to control the volume of the Bright and Normal Channel respectively. The way you distort those old Marshall is to crank usually Vol 1 which is the bright channel, as I say you don't have a pre gain and master volume on these just one volume per channel. You can jump the 2 channels together with a patch lead to blend the normal channel (Vol 2) in to warm things up a bit.


    In a 1959 Super Lead the first valve (V1) or half of the first valve (V1A) (I can never remember for sure) supplies gain to Vol 1, the second pre amp valve (V2) or second half of the first valve (V1B) supplies gain to Vol 2 the normal channel. Which ever input you are using then goes to the phase invertor (V3a and V3B), EQ section, then the power section.


    On a JMP MK2/JCM 800 the valves are cascaded for more gain, which basically means running those two valves in series rather than parallel, effectively doubling the amount of pre amp gain getting sent to the master volume, then to the phase inverter, then the EQ section then finally the power section.


    These amps still have a bright and normal input (but only these two input jacks not the four inputs anymore but no separate volume per channel anymore. This is replaced with a pre gain and a master volume control. Cascading pre amps don't work well without master volumes.

    So a JMP MK2/JCM800 works like this:


    Whichever input selected runs into V1A, which then runs into V1B, then into V2A and then into V2B, then to the master volume, then to the phase inverter (V3A and V3B), the EQ section and finally then to the power valves. So you are adding pre amp valves together to create more distortion rather than running one for each input and volume control like on the 1959 Super Lead.


    Hope this makes sense?


    Naturally an old Marshall Super Lead modded for master volume and cascaded gain stages will sound a touch different to a JMP2203/JCM800 but not much, once modified in this way the circuit is I'd say 95% or more the same. You will generally find a good old Super Lead will be a touch warmer and looser in the bass, while a late 70's JMP MK2 or a JCM 800 will be a bit tighter, more aggressive and brighter.


    As I say unless there was extra mods such as plate voltage adjusted etc and more tweaks done to the pre amp, it's basically a JCM 800.


    One thing that is also very common for hot rodded Marshall's in to add a post phase inverter master volume. Standard JCM800 have their master volume placed before the phase inverter (V3A and V3B) in the circuit, this means if the amp master volume isn't really cranked up say around 5 or above the amount of gain it lets through means the phase inverter doesn't get hit hard enough, which equals less distortion. Placing another master volume after the phase inverter valve means you can now turn the old standard master volume up to as far as 10 if you like causing all the pre amp gain to hit the phase inverter causing maximum distortion, you can then bring the volume back to humane levels with the new post phase inverter master volume. There is a good chance this was part of the mods Billie Joe had done do his amp.