Kemper vs. AX8 vs. Helix vs. BIAS Head - BLIND TEST!

  • You guys can say whatever you want to say but even based on clips alone, kemper recorded tones in regards to realism and musicality are untouchable by anything in the modeling world, the above video you posted was done in the spirit of fun but in regard to real world comparison, you gotta be a fool to even consider it as an actual representation of what each of the units are capable of. Kemper is in a league of it's own and here's the proof.


    Check these kemper clips and search the whole wide world web for anything from AXE II to Helix to Bias and if you find anything that you think is in the same ball park, then post a link to the video or clip. Very easy task, find the best Marshall tone from any modeler, or anything Bognar from any modeler that can touch these tones (Raw Amp tones), and then you can come with a straight face and say that they're even comparable. Let's do that in the spirit of fun just like the opening post video. I will not post any Marshall from Bias , Helix or AXE so I don't get accused of being Biased and picking bad ones, but everything even the best that I could find sounds like absolute crap compared to the Kemper profiles,. so I let you do the picking ad good luck finding anything that's within a mile .



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  • Hi,
    Raw = Raw not with tons of reverb delays chorus etc... Also who finally recording one guitar track? Its ok just for fun but not for professional use. I want to say this again - one guitar track its only a proof how good is guitarist :D that's all. How this sound fit in whole context like mix or live who knows? Becouse you want to hear and compare diff sounds we need the same source IMO. Good recording DI its a good starting point but again dont expect many diff sounds. So why not lets do this on the same source you can use your fav profiles and i can use few my amps cabs also ampsims, im ready.


    Stay Metal!

  • Hi,
    Raw = Raw not with tons of reverb delays chorus etc... Also who finally recording one guitar track? Its ok just for fun but not for professional use. I want to say this again - one guitar track its only a proof how good is guitarist :D that's all. How this sound fit in whole context like mix or live who knows? Becouse you want to hear and compare diff sounds we need the same source IMO. Good recording DI its a good starting point but again dont expect many diff sounds. So why not lets do this on the same source you can use your fav profiles and i can use few my amps cabs also ampsims, im ready.


    Stay Metal!

    ?(8o This is really fun. Come on sin! Admit that the Kemper is untouchable. You were the one who posted a video for a professional "recording one guitar track?" (your words) and then you ask "Also who finally recording one guitar track? Its ok just for fun but not for professional use"


    Then you and some others are using what you posted "one guitar track" to judge the capabilities of the Kemper but you say it's for fun.


    So I'm having fun also!


    are you able to show or point me to any one guitar track of any modeler that sounds like a Marshall Like the top Jimi profile??


    Are you able to point me to any one guitar track that sounds any where near the Guido Bognar?


    The answer clearly is you can't!! Even if you re-amped the Guido or top Jimi DI's using Bias ,Axe or Helix because they simply don't have the realism in their modeling as that of the KPA technology, if they did there would be hundreds of Clips that you could point me to.


    This shouldn't be a difficult challenge to link to a good realistic Marshall Super Lead tone from Helix or AXE FX II or BIAS.


    If they can't get the Marshall Super Lead right, and a profile from Top Jimi is indistinguishable from the Marshall Sound as any guitarist who played rock music should know, why even waste my time or why should anyone waste their time on inferior technology if cost is not an issue??

  • Yes, i can :D and its true that i post many of single guitar tracks when i have just only one guitar teavk becouse people like You just love to listen one guitar track :D If you kniw me a bit you can find many of threads on this forum with my opinion about 1 vs 1 guitar sound comparison, nothing new. Well yes i cant showing you the tone similiar to topjimi or Guido becouse again i dont have this source - good played and recorded guitar track thats the reason. So again if we want to compare few diff sounds from many sources we need to work on the same material in this case good played recirding DI track then you can use few great profiles and I can use few my amps cabs also ampsims and my own cab IR and then we can all compare the sounds - easy :D IM not saying that Guido or TopJimi profiles sounds bad just saying i can do the same with many other gears when we work on the same source. This way you can try proof that only Kemper can do the job and i can try to show that many other ways exists.


    Stay Metal!

  • And.. In meantine waiting for DI, check also Lasse video guy who soldin one profile for 50$ kniw how to do this, again 1 vs 1 guitar comparison and tell me that you dint hear a diif.


    https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=ijtSSHDU1a4


    Its really boring fir me saying same things many times but the point is how the track react on eq limiter comp after recording how they fit in the mix live or recording etc... You can hear this noton 1 vs 1 comparison but when you start working with this track. Even compared raw chinesse mic vs Neumann U87 raw teacj well... Small diff but finalky no one use raw teack you need to put them in the mix and start mixing with others instruments than you can start gearing all niuanses how it react on eq boisting highs etc.. How react on comp and finally how it fit in the mix maybe at the end you hear justs shhhhh even desser is enabled. Long story :D


    Stay Metal!

  • Sin, I'm going to finish by saying that I respect your skills in profiling and mixing but that's not the topic of the thread.


    I replied to this thread because I want to make sure that no one misunderstands the Ola video you posted to judge the KPA capability because even Ola himself said in the video that it was for fun and that he didn't profile in a standard way to get an accurate profile,.He wanted to make the Kemper profile different /better to his own taste and not for accuracy ^^ it's funny how some will watch the video and say, "Kemper didn't sound like the real amp" 8o This is hilarious!!


    If he tried to profile to make the kemper like the real amp it would have been very hard to distinguish from the real thing, this has been done years ago when the KPA was first released and it's boring to even point it out :sleeping:

    Edited once, last by Dean_R ().

  • szzzzz szzzz szzzzz is what my beer sounds like in a glass :D
    (sorry i shut up now) ^^


    Ash

    Have a beer and don't sneer. -CJ. Two non powered Kempers -Two mission stereo FRFR Cabs - Ditto X4 -TC electronic Mimiq.

  • First of all, I'm not a Kemper fanboy who is blind and closed for other solutions. Kemper is a great tool but again despite the fact that his main task is to copy the sound of a particular set, it still sounds like "Kemper" with own character in gain structure, I'm not saying whether it is good or bad - just not the same. I often hear a specific Kemper sound in many recordings, even those well-known.


    Yes, after awhile if you have discriminating ears you start to notice a sameness in all profiles. That sameness does not sound like real amps either. Its especially noticeable when rolling off volume knob. Sound becomes more boxy and thin where real amps stay full. Still like my Kemper but those who claim its indistinguishable from a real amp are are kidding themselves. Its a good tool but its not a replacement for real amps.


    Another thing is that the real amps sound different when monitored through the Kemper. When profiling amps they sound close using the A/B function on the Kemper but if you use an outboard A/B box and compare the differences are greater. The Kemper does something to the signal from the real amp making it sound more like the Kemper than it really is. Sounds like it rolls off the highs and the lows.

  • Thanks for posting this I love it!
    It really speaks to me because I know many guitar players who limit themselves to one style and just follow the herd as you show in this picture. It's very common in the metal genre players who don't open up to any style and constantly put every other style down.

    Some of them (not all) see everyone else as sheep when they're the definitive sheep by only limiting themselves to one style even in refusing to consider even listening to other styles of music, and the only thing they want to do is stay metal :D:thumbup:

  • Yes, after awhile if you have discriminating ears you start to notice a sameness in all profiles. That sameness does not sound like real amps either.

    The sameness that you speak of is because of you as individual. If Gilmour played using your rig he will sound like Gilmour within a few tweaks. If you play his rig, you will sound like yourself. It doesn't matter what amp you tweak, your preference to certain frequencies will bring you to the same or similar position, no escape. Even a producers who doesn't play will have a signature sound.



    Kemper profiles from the same producer/User or retail seller, have commonalities not only because they use the same cab or outboard gear, but because they will always gravitate to their own same frequency balancing preference.



    All guitar amps to a certain degree sound very similar, even many guitar bands also who try to copy one style (even when they're not) can sound very very similar even though they can be using different amps; so in conclusion we're all different but very similar in many ways also, that's just the way it is.

    Edited once, last by Dean_R ().

  • @Dean_R the sheep is not for You but for @Mr_Marty becouse i know how he can feel soon on Kemper forum when he post comments like this. I feel the same :D Secondly why You think that SinMix limiting themselves to one style - You dont know me... :/ Anyway now we have nice OT here. So If you wish to continue discussion then:



    1. Whats with differencess on this video? Sounds the same not the same almost the same not even the same spot on, or wait better than Real even if we dont know which one is real. (I know)



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    2. Where is DI for comparison? :D



    Stay Metal!

  • I did listen to that video and I heard a difference for sure


    But to be honest when I profiled my amps (sold them already), I did hear very slight difference in the bass (not as tight as real amp) that many also has experienced but that didn't stop me from selling them due to buying Kemper because 99% was more than good enough for me. With a little bit of EQ the bass frequencies not translating 100% made really no difference to me as I knew then that other profiles I would get from other users and commercial sellers are going to be that close to the real amp!


    In the video your showing there is a big difference and I'm not sure what's going on but at this point, I still find the Kemper to sound the most realistic sounding and that's all that matters.


    Regarding DI's, I don't think it means as much, because it simply doesn't capture the feel. If someone plays a real tube amp that he loves and records a DI he will be more inspired than someone who plays a plugin. His performance will be more inspired than if he played a plugin. The closer you get to the feel and the sound of real amp, the better inspired your performance will be. I know I can get great sounds with some plugins and Impulse responses that might be indistinguishable from an amp in a mix, but I personally think that an inspired performance is much much crucial than duplicating the sound or re-amping.


    I have no doubt that you would get great results with reamping using other tools than the Kemper, but if you already have a great tool that's also available at the time of performance then why bother!

  • Secondly why You think that SinMix limiting themselves to one style - You dont know me...

    Actually if my comment might seem that it you was directed at, it really wasn't. I didn't want to stir any pots so I didn't name who I was thinking of, but what the hell, I was actually referring many users of a specific device (I won't name the device) who claim the device i s the best for Djunt and in my mind they resemble the picture that you posted.

    Edited once, last by Dean_R ().

  • Mic up five Marshall super lead heads, using the same model of cab, mic and mic technique.


    You'll hear all of these differences and more. One will have a tighter low end, one will have a more open clean tone, one will have a fizziness in the gain...hell, you'll probably find the same with five takes from the same amp!


    I've never understood why people can't embrace this behaviour in the kemper in the same way they embrace it in real amps. The real question is, does it sound like the amp it's modelling?


    A difference in low end between two recordings doesn't reflect on the overall accuracy of the kemper tone at all in my opinion. Maybe when the kemper profiled the amp, the valves gave a slightly different eq response to when you played through it to compare? A profile will accurately capture a snapshot of how an amp performs, it may not behave identically to the amp in every way, but that one snapshot will be incredibly accurate and sound like the original amp did when that signal was run through it.


    So, if anyone wants to do an accurate comparison video, they'll need to run the kemper's profiling tones through their amplifier rather than a DI guitar track, as that was how the response was initially measured when the profile was created!



    I won't be doing it though, I'm happy with my kemper tones and don't see any reason to worry about what tones other people like :)

  • Buil in Kemper Ampsim programable by kemper proffiling signal still trying to recreate diff amps sounds, so what you expect? Its like a sex with condom, not bad but not the same :D
    Stay Metal!

    Are you sure the Kemper has built-in amp-sims and uses those as an approximation?
    Not in my experience... I'm pretty sure that's not the case after profilling close to 100 different amps and pedals myself...

  • if the generated tones cased a different reaction from the amp that itself would be a huge problem.

    My point was that amps will potentially react differently whenever ANY signal is run through them. It's just not practical to expect a valve amp to deliver a consistent frequency response every time.


    The Kemper on the other hand can deliver that consistency. However, the part I don't understand is when people do A/B comparisons and seem shocked that the two sounds aren't absolutely identical.


    As I said, I wouldn't expect two valve amps of the same make and model to sound identical, so I just expect around that level of similarity from the Kemper.

  • Are you sure the Kemper has built-in amp-sims and uses those as an approximation?Not in my experience... I'm pretty sure that's not the case after profilling close to 100 different amps and pedals myself...

    Same here..is there any real proof for this claim;If not...you know.. :thumbdown:


    Not that it is of any interest why the profiler sounds as great as it does but false claims are not okay in any case.

  • There was talk for years about there being, I think, 7 baseline algorithms into which the profiling process fed the data it collected, Nikos. Templates, if you like. The most-appropriate of the 7 would be chosen based upon the behaviours / characteristics of the amp being Profiled.


    I've never seen any sort of acknowledgement by anyone on the K-Team™ or CK of this speculation, which isn't surprising IMHO. Even if it's not the case, to say what it isn't is simply revealing one more thing that it cannot be, and if you're keeping a secret...


    Unless I'm mistaken, Cliff either came up with the idea or at least spoke of it.