Kemper + 5150 issue !!!!!SOLVED!!!!!

  • The 5150 was profiled sucessfully by a number of people, maybe a few will chime in here (some already have).


    Using a huge red font, CAPS LOCK, calling us liars and being overly dramatic is however not an acceptable way to lead this discussion.
    I ask you to the remove the CAPS LOCK from your post (I already changed the huge font to standard size black font).


    I also expect this discussion to be civil and based on rationale - no more tantrums.


    thanks.

  • from my exp,,I have found that gear is only as good as the person using it, there is no one way to tone,there is no one, holy grail amp, thats what make s it so much fun, I tried 3, 5150' heads,at GC, using the same cab, each one sounded diff to me,I did not buy one,, so many variables,,
    A profile is a snapshot in time, just how hot the tubes were, what kind of cables, broke in speakers? or new, cab, size of the room,mics?, the guitar, the pickups, on and on, not to mention the guy doing it,moving a mic half an inch can really change the tone, a lot!
    Some come really easy, My pink Taco was great right off, never could get the Bad Cat to sound right, gave up,,on the bad cat, not the kemper,
    If you not getting it,, then do it again and again, (thats how I learned to play guitar,, I still practice and take lessons I am 62,,)
    and like the others here have said, there are killer 5150 profiles out there,try M Britts,for starters


  • I'm not just making things up


    "Profiling is a unparalleled technique to extract the exact tone and feel from any amp."


    Since that is obviously not the case, that is a lie, on your own homepage.


    Change that text to:


    "Profiling is an unparalleled technique to extract the exact tone and feel from some amps, but not all"


    That is the truth. Saying "ANY AMP" is obviosuly not true


    Not even Ola Englund could profile the Mesa properly in his video, and he's a professional so he should know what he's doing.


    I know what I'm doing, since I could profile a Gallien Krueger properly, and even a Roland Microcube


    But the 5150 is just impossible, even tho I'm using the same mics and refining techiniques!

  • @Cederick: The 5150 was already profiled by a lot of people.
    So you cannot say that this amp is not profilable!
    It is, only you are not able to do it!
    ;)

  • It's not that I "cannot profile"It's that the Kemper doesn't get the sound right. That's not my fault. That's either a software, or hardware issue within Kemper.

    Or a problem with microfoning?
    Or the wrong amp settings?
    There are a lot of possible errors.
    Other guys did it right, you don't.
    Just load a good profile in RigManager or by a good one!

  • Shouldn't the kemper be able to capture the sound even if the amp is not perfectly miced and not depending on the settings of the amp?


    I have profiled many amps and had problems with some of them or with concrete settings of an amp. Some settings of the same amp were profiled correctly and some didn't (Fuchs ODS is an example. This amp has many switches and the clean channel feeds the overdrive one.


    I always miss some energy in the lows but this is not a problem with guitar amps. Too much with bass amps IMO.

    Edited 4 times, last by pacocito ().

  • I just want to chime in here.


    Profiling of a 5150 is totally possible, and is in no way "impossible" as the OP is suggesting, in fact his arguments are rather false.


    Like anything, and everything, Profiling is an art, rightly or wrongly, but each to there own with preferences, but I managed to capture several 5150's (and others similar) without the need of extra fussing around, nor the need to adapt to a special technique. - in short, what i heard through the amp is what i got back through the kemper..


    These style amps are incredibly popular with the community, especially in the harder rock genre, so it would be an oversight indeed if Kempers design team decided not to include this in its profile algorithms. - in fact these amps were introduced in video form when kemper was at a young age, and there are some very convincing videos with sound clips comparing the Profile vs real amp. (Search on youtube)


    So I dont agree with the OP's statements, rather blame the Kemper, blame yourself for not "getting it" - read up, learn up and you will eventually get it correct like many others have achieved easily enough.


    And moreover, please dont have an attack on Kemper as its not there fault for your own ignorance.


    I think you need to calm down, and really look at what your doing,


    On that note, I wish you luck


    Andy

  • Just like Pacocito says, it's NOT a matter of "bad microphone placement". Why do you even assume such a thing, Stefans-Kemper?


    The Kemper should be able to capture the worst possible amp with bad settings, with the worst possible mic and placement.


    It's not the issue here.


    And Mental, I dont think you understood the clips... Each clip has first REAL AMP, then I switch over to KEMPER.
    It's the trebly sound I want, but the Kemper makes it dull. Dude, you dont seem to read through the posts properly.
    Please, take more time, read a post 2 times slowly before posting :) hehehehe

  • I think you missed some critical parts of my statement:


    1. I profiled a Gallien Krueger near perfectly. One refine, and it was done.
    2. I profiled a little Roland Microcube for fun, with good results as well. Three refines, and it was done.
    3. With the exact same setup, mic, and everything... I still couldn't profile my 5150 properly. I refined several times for 20 minutes, I even tried other mic positions, other amp settings, with and without overdrive, it JUST DIDN'T CAPTURE THE SOUND.


    Please, listen to the clips. The Gallien Krueger and Roland is very similar, so I certainly know exactly how to profile. It's not a hard thing to do. Put a mic in front of amp, hit "profile!" and go... Refine a couple of times, and it should be done, no matter how bad the settings or mic placement are.


    But the 5150 just was impossible to get right. Loss of treble, an added low-mid bump.


    Just like Ola Englund got on his Mesa Mark on the video in the OP.


    So it's NOT my fault. It's something with the Kemper. If even Ola Englund fails at one amp, why can't I?


    There's even others in the trhead witnessing about some amps being impossible to capture well.

  • Cedrik, may I ask you to check the bias settings on the amps power section, not related so to speak, but Ive had problems when an amp is not running at its best.


    Not suggesting it is this of course, but certainly worth a try.


    If you have profiled the other amps just fine, and happy with the results, then clearly something else is a miss.


    I know its not the actual amp as 5150's have been profiled by tons of people..(unless this one you have has something modded/Different about it)


    And just so you know, ola is not really an engineer, he is a recording/player artist. hence why he managed to perhaps fail. (not suggesting he is incappable) just you seem to be strung on the fact that he cant do it therfore no-one can.. - If he is then i apologise to him of course, but that was not my assessment anyway! : )

  • Wouldn't the Kemper capture the "not at its best" sound? I dont see how Kemper could know how the tube bias is adjusted.


    I dont know... i just feel like giving up now

  • Really have to disagree with that completely.


    How much recording of mic'ed cabs and amps have you done?


    I am seriously asking, because, particularly when using a dynamic mic, close mic'ing the speaker, mic placement is EVERYTHING when it comes to resultant recorded tone. Right on the cone, will NOT sound the same as on the edge. Straight on axis will NOT sound the same as off axis, even at the same spot. This, is well known. Different placements will pick up different frequencies, this is known science.


    Profiling process is dependent on the recording chain, just as if you mic'ed it to record. Where else do you think the input to the profiling process comes from. That Mic.


    And because, mic placement affects what frequencies are actually picked up (and mic choice as well), that can directly affect the profile of certain amps. What makes the 5150/6505's unique tone, is in it's particular mix of frequencies AND sub harmonics. Mic'ed badly, and you WILL miss what that amp sounds like.


    Additionally, mic placement for one amp that works great, may not work for another amp. See above.


    Don't believe me, try it yourself. Profile any of your amps, same everything, except each time position the mic at different parts of the speaker. Change it's axis relative to the plane of the speaker. Then tell me mic placement makes no difference.


    And, that Mic'ed sound is NOT going to sound like what you hear in the room. That is where tweaking might be needed.

  • Wouldn't the Kemper capture the "not at its best" sound? I dont see how Kemper could know how the tube bias is adjusted.
    I dont know... i just feel like giving up now

    See above.


    Seems like your not understanding how the Kemper captures the profile. You run a signal to the amp, and it returns via a recorded signal, via the mic. It is THAT signal from the mic used to profile. If what it gets sounds bad/wrong, via that mic, then it is a situation of garbagee in, garbage out.


    Bias on the amp can fundamentally change how the amp responds to inputs to the amp. I know you have heard those space sounds the Kemper runs through the amp. Those are designed to test how that amp responds to signal in many many facets. Amp bias WILL affect those responses, thus affect what the profiler gets back, and thus the resultant [profile.


    I'm a profiling neophyte, but all of the above is obvious to me.


    I'll be honest. YOu seem hell bent on bashing the Kemper right now for some reason.j

  • Cedric, no one has asked this, but, what is your profile chain?


    What Mic are you using?


    How are you mic'ing the cab (i.e. where is the mic placed relative to the speaker and how)?


    WHAT cab are you using?


    I will also add, when profiling my 6505 (very similar) the resonance set too high could make profiling more difficult.