Kemper + 5150 issue !!!!!SOLVED!!!!!

  • I do not agree with how @Cederick words things but I do see his point.


    His point / question;


    Why is his Kemper getting a different sound from what is miked? This has nothing to do with mic placement or recordings skills. He is able to record a tone he likes directly into his DAW with the miked cab. Why is the Kemper not able to capture the tone?

  • Hmmm, how do I exactly connect the Kemper and Radial? That feels kinda weird that I should have to use it with 5150 when I didn't need it with the Gallien Krueger (or Microcube for that matter)


    You use the radial J48 to record the DI of the guitar into your DAW. You can then send that recording out of your interface, through your reamp box, and from that into your kemper, enabling you to record the return signal as usual (eg. spdif). You can then do the same for the EVH. But it might be overkill for now.

  • There's the possibility that your setup is not optimal even if it worked for the other Amp. How about starting a thread to politely ask for help by stating the method and your setup and who knows you might be missing something. To state that "Kemper is selling a lie" based on your undisclosed detail about how you were unable to profile your 5150 is a little bit more than rash.


    I'm not going to accuse you of user error or having an agenda, but you're just being rash probably due to frustration is not helping anything. Your experience is very very inconsistent with many who successfully profiled their amps and this forum might be helpful to you if you just asked the questions first instead of jumping to the wrong conclusions.


    What are you trying to accomplish in this thread? Is it just to bash the Kemper? Or you really want to learn how others have successfully profiled their amps? If it's the latter, then there are ways to work it out and fix it, but if it's to bash, you're not swaying me or the thousands of happy users from Keeping our Kemper that are worth every penny even if it successfully profiled 20-30 amps! But there are profiles for virtually any amp with very few exceptions that have no bearing on the Kemper still being the best product in the market for what it does.


    By the way when you referenced how Ola's Kemper profiles sounds the least closest to the amp in the Youtube video you posted in the first post, you missed a very critical point:


    you should go watch the video again and listen to how he actually used the Kemper and he profiled it in an alternate method because he preferred the alternate method (he thought his method sounded better) and his whole test was not about accuracy, it was just about a guessing game and having fun , he actually said that in the end of the video and I don't blame him for how people misinterpret what they watch or hear, happens all the time. Good luck, if you need help, I'm sure there are many patient members in this community that will assist.


    Maybe your 5150 is defective and the frequency range due to its defect is so out of wack that the Kemper isn't seeing it as a guitar amp anymore, I say that because many have profiled their 5150s.

  • I do not agree with how @Cederick words things but I do see his point.


    His point / question;


    Why is his Kemper getting a different sound from what is miked? This has nothing to do with mic placement or recordings skills. He is able to record a tone he likes directly into his DAW with the miked cab. Why is the Kemper not able to capture the tone?

    Why are many others able to profile their 5150 and other amps successfully? Is his Kemper defective? Is his setup defective? Is he omitting or overlooking something? Just because he profiled one amp correctly doesn't eliminate these possibilities! If he gives more details instead of just bashing the product, this would be figured out.

  • Can I ask why you even posted here without even reading my reasons and listening to clips? You cannot help that way.Since you didn't read or listen, you posted completely irrelevant stuff.


    Michael_dk is trying to help, so I appreciate that. I don't appreciate ignorant people not even reading or listening before posting irrelevant stuff.

    K, I've listened to the clips now.


    And frankly, those differences could easily be due to wrong mic for the job and/or mic placement during profiling. I hear frequencies NOT being picked up during the profiling that are affecting the end result. Could be wrong, but that's what I hear. When I profiled my 6505 with a Sennheiser E609 mic. The mic shifted (tilted away from flat with the grill) the tiniest bit between profiles, and I got a similar, albeit even more pronounced result than yours.


    I'd also look at your resonance setting. Again, having it too high on my 6505 made the profile less clear. But, again being honest., sounds more like MIC'ing issues, or signal chain issues in your profiling setup, losing frequencies during the profiling process.


    Also, differences I heard in the clips, and others have mentioned this more than a few times, appear to me as well to be fixable by adjusting some of the amp parameters on the profile. Even in my limited experience profiling so far, I've seen this necessary sometimes. It really isn't that big a deal to have to do that after, considering the amazing amount the amp has already done. Not sure, why your so averse to even trying that.


    And lastly, profiles, when in profiling mode, do not always sound, for me, the same, as when then played in Browse mode or Performance. Others have pointed this out as well. And it appears, your recordings are straight from profile mode.

  • I can confirm that the tone is very different when you listen in profile-mode compared to browser-mode. Trying out a new profile in profile-mode sounded very weird and not good at all, but when I changed to browse mode it was almost like an entirely other profile. A little bit strange, but I guess the profile-mode is only for profiling and comparing levels with the amp that's being profiled.

  • I've DI profiled many of my amp heads ranging from Mesa Mark V and RA, Two Rock, Matchless, Victoria, etc.


    Most of them are dead accurate when I swap the head for the KPA after the profile into the same cab (via Matrix power amp.) I truly can't tell the difference on most of them.


    With that said, the ONLY amp that doesn't behave this way is my EVH 5150IIIS. I believe it is related to the high gain, as the Green and Blue Channels do just fine, but the Red Channel always requires some tweaking after the profile.


    I've tried it a few different times now, and when it's done I usually have to modify the Definition and adjust the EQ slightly. But after doing that I'm able to get the profile to sound almost identical to the amp.


    All that to say, the KPA is amazing and does something nothing else can do, and does it better. Sure, it might take a little tweaking in isolated cases, but that's a small price to pay for this kind of functionality.

  • You wouldn't be interested in sharing these profiles of your awesome amps? :D


    I find it rather strange that you can profile channel one and two, but not three. The studio and DI profile I made of channel three sounded the best by far. Channel two was a bit hard to get right, but it sounds pretty good with the right guitar. It is a truly awesome amp that I would have loved to keep if I had the space and money, the metal and hard rock tones are simply outstanding! For more vintage voiced cranked/modded Plexi tones it doesn't hold a candle to a real Plexi (or profiles of one) though, but it is and always will be a metal amp :thumbup:


  • Pleeeaaaase, even more weird assumptions. Do you really think I'm that stupid? I re-profiled the 5150 at least 4 times, would the microphone tilt back and fourth like a wobble-head between every take? No, it wasn't moving at all, unless I wanted it to move and try another position.
    Not that it mattered, the same differences (loss of treble, bumped low-mid) happened everytime.


    But the Gallien and Microcube recordings are ALSO from Profiler mode. Why do THEY sound right? And not 5150?


    They sounded right no matter where I placed the microphone.


    Keep in mind, with "sounding right" I'm not talking about GOOD tone. I never tried to make a GOOD profile, I just wanted to hear, if the Kemper was able to capture what I was micing. But it wasn't.


    You should be able to put a microphone under a blanket and get a realistic capture, even if the tone itself is bad. That's the whole deal with Kemper, right? Getting what you mic up.


    Again, Gallien and Microcube sounded spot on in profile mode (AND browser mode after saving), why would the 5150 be different? I never saved any 5150 profiles because I was never satisfied when trying profiling.

  • I can confirm that the tone is very different when you listen in profile-mode compared to browser-mode. Trying out a new profile in profile-mode sounded very weird and not good at all, but when I changed to browse mode it was almost like an entirely other profile. A little bit strange, but I guess the profile-mode is only for profiling and comparing levels with the amp that's being profiled.


    My clips with Gallien Krueger and Microcube are also profiler mode. Why do they sound "spon on"?

  • You use the radial J48 to record the DI of the guitar into your DAW. You can then send that recording out of your interface, through your reamp box, and from that into your kemper, enabling you to record the return signal as usual (eg. spdif). You can then do the same for the EVH. But it might be overkill for now.

    I could as wel just use KEmper as DI box, as I usually do.
    There's no real difference between Tascams hi-z, the Radial J48 and Kemper in how the DIs sound, I've experimented with this. I use active pickups and I've read that they help with impedance or something, and that matches well with my own resulsts when trying these different DI methods.

  • They aren't weird assumptions, if one has no information from you to go on. Not once, though asked many, many times have you given details of any deep nature as to what you have done. Like what mic did you use.


    "You should be able to put a microphone under a blanket and get a realistic capture, even if the tone itself is bad. That's the whole deal with Kemper, right? Getting what you mic up." No, it isn't what the kemper is all about, and no that won't work.


    See, it's comments like this that are befuddling.


    How do you think the Kemper profiles the amp? Do you honestly not understand that it is how that signal differs when it returns via the mic, compared to how it was sent is exactly how the KPA profiles the amp. Because, that is how it works. Why would corrupting, limiting or obfuscating that returned signal NOT impact the ability to profile? Not if your end goal is to have a profile that actually sounds when used like the amp.


    And, I'll be frank, comments like "I never tried to make a GOOD profile, I just wanted to hear, if the Kemper was able to capture what I was micing." speak to either a less than perfect use of English, or suspect motives. And, I will be frank, the above statement seems like your trying, that your end result/goal is to prove or show the KPA tech doesn't work. That is even taking that statement on it's own. But, you lambasted and discarded posts by others (many pros, recording professionals, etc.).


    It doesn't seem like you actually want to make the KPA work.


    But maybe, it's just miscommunication, and you don't have an agenda. Maybe you do want to actually get a good accurate 5150 II profile


    If so, how bout this? If you really want to rectify how about:


    Listing what you did step by step.
    List how you have it hooked up and with what.
    Perhaps give a recording of the resultant profile, as asked, outside of profile mode..


    Or keep wallowing in your misery and lashing out at everyone. Cause, that is really working well (sarcasm)

  • "Solved = user was stupid"


    :D

    Alert [Attempt at comedy, please have a sense of humor]


    Is this thread also going to also have a similar ending to this one?
    Please help me! (surprise... same issue as always... sounding digital and thin and whatever)


    Sounds Like OCD don't you think? I have a few friends who acknowledge this. I was dropping a friend off today and he asked me to stop the car because he wanted to make sure he packed some specific item of clothing, thankfully it was there :thumbsup: and thankfully my emergency flashers still worked and kept us from getting rear ended.


    Now getting back to profiling, and since this whole thread is about guessing games and fun, I'm going to start a game of guessing what the problem is and you can feel free to throw in your guesses.


    My guess (using the power of deduction, still a guess):


    Since the amp being profiled is generally considered a metal amp, the users will more than likely play at very high volume. Some of the amp knobs are changing position due to the loud volume, maybe one of them is a little more wobbly so after the amp is profiled the setting changes due the knob not staying in the same spot and then it starts sounding different.



    Solution: buying a knob stopper or similar product to secure the knobs and keep that same setting would help.

  • LOL. How imaginative, Dean.


    With that said, the ONLY amp that doesn't behave this way is my EVH 5150IIIS. I believe it is related to the high gain, as the Green and Blue Channels do just fine, but the Red Channel always requires some tweaking after the profile.


    I've tried it a few different times now, and when it's done I usually have to modify the Definition and adjust the EQ slightly. But after doing that I'm able to get the profile to sound almost identical to the amp.

    Now, where have I heard that before, gtrgriff? 8o I know:


    I thought the same thing. Definition first, then EQ, but I'm not experienced enough to know what else can be done. I am certain there'd be other refining measures that'd help 'though. Perhaps even the tube settings? Dunno. All I do know is that IMHO it's not unreasonable to have to tweak a little in order to match, but it is unreasonable, again, IMHO, to expect that one should never have to tweak as part of the Profiling process.

    @waraba beat me to it, but there you have it.


    Folks, Cedrick's own evaluation of how he goes about things was IMHO accurate. I rode his emotional rollercoaster with him when he first joined. I don't see it as fair to judge him as being a troublemaker or troll, and IMHO @Michael_dk's approach, which is scarily-similar to the one I've taken when trying to help him in the past, is the way to go. Obviously I'm gonna say that 'cause it's what I did, right? However... it worked. Poor "Ceddy" went from pink to black and back again several times, but in the end he was a happy Kemper, and that's what we'd all like to see I'm sure... most of us, at least.


    Cederick, let's see how you go fiddling with these amp parameters, mate; it's a starting point at least, and much-less daunting than having to mess around with routing / configuring alternate, made-for-comparison Profiling setups. I know from having dealt with you in the past that you'd prefer a more-immediate, simple solution than to have to conduct "scientific" experiments (remember how I tried to convince you of the efficacy of certain strict controls in your situation... for several pages? LOL). I get it mate. You're not happy. The good news is that a solution will be found; it's not rocket science. Why not take a deep breath and tell yourself all will be alright, eh? Seriously man, have some faith. You do have the ultimate amp-soul-stealin', heartbreakin' gizmo available to man, no doubt, brother!


    Hang in there.

  • I do not agree with how @Cederick words things but I do see his point.


    His point / question;


    Why is his Kemper getting a different sound from what is miked? This has nothing to do with mic placement or recordings skills. He is able to record a tone he likes directly into his DAW with the miked cab. Why is the Kemper not able to capture the tone?

    I don't like the way Cederick reacts to suggestions nor the way some other users "help" when their favourite product is questioned but I'm really interested in this issue and IMO that's the question not being answered.


    Does the KPA only clone certain ways of micing an amp?


    Could someone please answer that question? Thank you.