Kemper + 5150 issue !!!!!SOLVED!!!!!


  • Folks, Cedrick's own evaluation of how he goes about things was IMHO accurate. I rode his emotional rollercoaster with him when he first joined. I don't see it as fair to judge him as being a troublemaker or troll, and IMHO @Michael_dk's approach, which is scarily-similar to the one I've taken when trying to help him in the past, is the way to go. Obviously I'm gonna say that 'cause it's what I did, right? However... it worked. Poor "Ceddy" went from pink to black and back again several times, but in the end he was a happy Kemper, and that's what we'd all like to see I'm sure... most of us, at least.


    Cederick, let's see how you go fiddling with these amp parameters, mate; it's a starting point at least, and much-less daunting than having to mess around with routing / configuring alternate, made-for-comparison Profiling setups. I know from having dealt with you in the past that you'd prefer a more-immediate, simple solution than to have to conduct "scientific" experiments (remember how I tried to convince you of the efficacy of certain strict controls in your situation... for several pages? LOL). I get it mate. You're not happy. The good news is that a solution will be found; it's not rocket science. Why not take a deep breath and tell yourself all will be alright, eh? Seriously man, have some faith. You do have the ultimate amp-soul-stealin', heartbreakin' gizmo available to man, no doubt, brother!


    Hang in there.


    I don't think there's any merit in you being an apologist on anyone's behalf, Nicky.


    The OP was deliberately rude and I seriously don't think @Michael_dk, or you, will get anywhere with this thread.


    I cynically asked the OP to do a video to show us how he is micing up his amp. We've taken his words at face value (i.e. I know what I'm doing), so it's only fair that he demonstrates this problem to us in a way that would allow experienced members who have profiled 5150s successfully to provide fixes and solutions.


    Anything else is just beating around the bush. We've heard the clips and there's something going wrong there.


    But the accusations of "lying" are just not on, especially when someone says that about a company that has


    OP says that he's free to state what he wants. I beg to differ, state what you want in all fairness.


    I've seen plenty of threads with the same angle on the profiler by the user. "Why is this not right", "why is that not right"... Even stuff like @sinmix and @Deadlightstudio don't know how to profile.


    In light of all of those past posts and the latest, unbridled attack, I'm not surprised anyone yelled out, "Troll".


    Even polite support offered on this thread has been subject to claims that the respondents don't know what they are talking about.


    I don't see this thread ending any other way than another thread saying "I sold the Kemper because it sucks".


    So try and help the thread starter as much as you like. Just don't apologise on his behalf when he has made no such overtures.

  • The OP was deliberately rude and I seriously don't think @Michael_dk, or you, will get anywhere with this thread.

    Ain't gonna stop us trying, AJ. Only three options for me: Ignore the thread, help shoot him down, or try to help him "solve" the issue.


    But the accusations of "lying" are just not on

    Absolutely. Thankfully, Don dealt with that.


    In light of all of those past posts and the latest, unbridled attack, I'm not surprised anyone yelled out, "Troll"

    Me neither, brother. I pride myself on not leaping to judgement 'though; I took his well-demonstrated demeanour into account, having interacted with him before. There was never any doubt that someone would do it 'though, as you implied, especially given that first post. It was comedy gold, really, and a wtf moment for me. Cederick ought to know better, and who knows, he may well do so now.


    So try and help the thread starter as much as you like. Just don't apologise on his behalf when he has made no such overtures.

    Gotcha, AJ. You know I respect your opinions, mate, so thank you.


    Now, @Cederick, how's that amp-settings tweaking going?

  • "You should be able to put a microphone under a blanket and get a realistic capture, even if the tone itself is bad. That's the whole deal with Kemper, right? Getting what you mic up." No, it isn't what the kemper is all about, and no that won't work.

    You see, here's where must admit you're wrong.


    You claim to know how Kemper works, and that I have no idea... Then, how comes MY statement was 100% true?
    That makes you wrong, sorry. With that I don't say you don't know how Kemper works, I'm sure you do, because it's not rocket science.
    And that's the thing; you want to MAKE it rocket science, by claiming somebody needs "good mic placement" or "good mics" or whatever, but let me prove to you that "good mic placement" is NOT a valid argument. In short; Kemper does NOT care about bad mic placement. It cares about what's feed into it, no matter what.



    REAL VS KEMPER PROFILE A/B COMPARISON WITHOUT BLANKET


    Moderator Notice:

    In most cases, Soundcloud uses a bandwidth of only 128 kbps. As a result, what you hear isn't free of artefacts, especially the high end. For critical listening and also product comparison, please keep that in mind. Users who setup a comparison should use linear wave files and supply dropbox links.


    [Blocked Image: http://i67.tinypic.com/2wee6tc.jpg]



    REAL VS KEMPER PROFILE A/B COMPARISON WITH TWO LAYERS OF BLANKET AROUND THE MIC


    Moderator Notice:

    In most cases, Soundcloud uses a bandwidth of only 128 kbps. As a result, what you hear isn't free of artefacts, especially the high end. For critical listening and also product comparison, please keep that in mind. Users who setup a comparison should use linear wave files and supply dropbox links.


    [Blocked Image: http://i63.tinypic.com/veumhy.jpg]



    And before you even try, please don't try to invalidate my experiement by pointing out that I only use a book and tape for mic stand.
    That's nothing the Kemper knows or cares anything about. I don't say you would argue with this, but somebody might do it.
    I don't have any mic stands at home, they are all in rehearsal. Not that it matters anyway. I did you mic stands when profiling earlier.



    Also I understand pointing out my bad english feels good for you, but it's no valid argument against my issue with the Kemper/5150. Those issues are very real, and I know what I'm doing. If there wasn't an issue, I wouldn't post, right?


    Ok, sure I went past the "ok level", and turned into a complete asshole and I feel really bad about that now, but that's unfortunately just the way I am. Just like monkey_man pointed out I'm either "pink or black" and while I don't have an OCD diagnosis I wouldn't be surprised if I could aquire one. I have other diagnostics, but I'm not gonna blame my bad behaviour on that. I can avoid it if I'm thinking before acting, but too often I don't...



    So what's the moral of the story?
    You have made several assumptions in full confidence, and now I even have hard proof that you're wrong.
    Previously you claimed stuff without even listening to my clips, or probably not even reading my reasons.
    So please, admit that I've been right AT LEAST HERE, ok? Dude, I'm the one who's accused of trolling, and I provide hard evidence for my reasons.


    I don't get this.


    I want to say sorry for my previous behavior because my mood swings like a jojo straight out of hell but I wanna wait with that until I get some credibility back... if it's even possible.

  • Does the KPA only clone certain ways of micing an amp?


    Could someone please answer that question? Thank you.

    No, of course not.
    It's Input = Output, as has been demonstrated countless times over the over 4 years of the Profilers existence.


    I realize there is something keeping @Cederick from obtaining a completely authentic Profile from his 5150 at this point, but questioning the fundamentals of Profiling after all this time, Profiling, everyday studio and live usage by top professionals worldwide is simply overreacting.


    As of now, the overwhelming evidence points towards user error or another singular phenomenon.
    To reliably compare the Profile vs. the amp, reamping is mandatory to eliminate the 'human factor'.
    I'm on mobile right now and will listen to Cedericks new comparison later.

  • listening over good headphones - while there is a bit of difference in volume in the second clip, exactly what are these clips supposed to be demonstrating?
    I'd appreciate a short-ish answer ;)

  • Don
    These are not the ones with issue (they're identical) , it's a side thing between Ced and cybermgk. Ced is trying to proof Cyber to be wrong when cybermgk stated that mic placement is relevant to profiling.


    The 5150 clips in the the opening post are the real issue.

  • I just got a subtle harsch frequency that I dislike a lot. Everytime, I couldn't get it out.


    Moderator Notice:

    In most cases, Soundcloud uses a bandwidth of only 128 kbps. As a result, what you hear isn't free of artefacts, especially the high end. For critical listening and also product comparison, please keep that in mind. Users who setup a comparison should use linear wave files and supply dropbox links.


    Moderator Notice:

    In most cases, Soundcloud uses a bandwidth of only 128 kbps. As a result, what you hear isn't free of artefacts, especially the high end. For critical listening and also product comparison, please keep that in mind. Users who setup a comparison should use linear wave files and supply dropbox links.


    you didn't state which is which (with or without OD, amp/Profiler) but no matter


    the second half of each clip has more bass 'thump'. Without adjusting the low frequencies to match more closely, you cannot reliably judge the high frequency content. With less bass you will always hear things going on in the higher registers that are not as apparent in the same sound with more bass, even though they are present there as well.


    assuming the amp was the bassier sound, simply dial in a little bit of bass using the STACK EQ.
    not reamping, but playing the riff to compare will also have an effect, which makes it harder to compare.

  • REAL VS KEMPER PROFILE A/B COMPARISON WITHOUT BLANKET


    Moderator Notice:

    In most cases, Soundcloud uses a bandwidth of only 128 kbps. As a result, what you hear isn't free of artefacts, especially the high end. For critical listening and also product comparison, please keep that in mind. Users who setup a comparison should use linear wave files and supply dropbox links.


    [Blocked Image: http://i67.tinypic.com/2wee6tc.jpg]


    May I know what mic that is? Maybe you could unscrew the grill and get better results.

  • BTW, the 'blanket' experiment is a crap profile and is not an accurate representation of the actual amp's tone, now is it? Pretty much what I was saying. You actually proved my point. The problem was you weren't hearing my point. The mic and placement have a HUGE impact on the resulting profile. And, thank you, you proved it. Or does your amp sound like that? (We all know the answer is no). Yes the profile is a fairly accurate tone of the amp miced with a blanket. But then it should be. Wrapping the mic makes it a much less complex tone and signal to profile.


    Not sure how else to explain this. Do you think it is easier or harder to profile a more complex sounding amp, with a complex frequency mix, more complex sub harmonics etc, or a less so one?


    If your thinking objectively, you will say, the less complex. After all, that is common sense.


    And, guess what, wrapping that mic in a blanket, you are making the amps output a whole lot more simple. Yes, lot easier to match that.


    But that is neither her, nor there. LOTS of people have accurately profiled that 5150. ERGO, it isn't an inability of the Kemper to do it, it is something in how you are profiling, be it setup, mic'ing, amp settings etc., (or recording the profile vs reference amp in profile mode), or your particular KPA, or a combination.


    Seems to date, all you want to do is A argue, and B. Only blame the Kemper.


    If you truly want to 'fix' the situation, then I, and others have many times) suggest you entertain the idea that, just maybe there is something you can do differently, either in the process, or with minor tweaks of the profile after.


    There are at least a few still willing to help you in that regard (not me now), and they are very experienced at this.


    But, they have asked you to give them the bare minimum to allow them to help you. For some reason, you seem adverse to giving them what they need, i.e. a vid of you profiling the 5150, with how amp is set, mic'ing etc, or a detailed description of same.


    Lastly, for most of us, we want an accurate sounding and playing profile, that sounds and feels like the real amp, when played on the Kemper (in Browse or Performance mode). Sometimes, as several have mention, that takes some tweaking of the amp parameters after the profile has been taken and refined. I could be wrong, but your posts haven't show a willingness to try that at all, as several have suggested.


    I'm done here. I was married to a severely bipolar suffering wife for over 14 years, and had enough of this kind of behavior then, (Mic drop)


  • Cederick,


    You seem to have a fixed opinion about you doing it right and us doing it wrong and being liars.
    You don't even ask questions, so I guess you don't want to have your problem solved. No problem, just a matter of style.



    To all the others that wonder what could have caused the problem, here is the section in our Profiling Manual, that could guide to a solution:


    ""You might also run into trouble when profiling a sound in which both the pre- and power amps of the reference
    amplifier are driven into distortion. If the resulting Profile sounds unsatisfying, try to reduce the volume of the
    power amp. This will make the sound somewhat more transparent, without significantly reducing the amount of
    distortion. The same is true for those modeling amps which offer a separate gain control for pre- and power amp.""


    CK

  • Excellent point (and from THE expert). And it definitely applies to the 5150/6505 style amps. Had similar issues with my first attempt with my 6505, till I backed down the post a little.

  • You said "no that won't work."


    And I proved that it DOES work.


    I never said it was a good micing technique. But the Kemper captured both blanket and non-blanket almost perfectly in both cases, right? You said "it wont work" but it did.


    If it didn't work, the Kemper would give a warning message like "Cannot profile" or someting. I got a warning message when profiling the Microcube, telling there's a noise gate inside. But there's no warning texts when putting a blanket over the mic.


    So it DOES WORK.