Kemper is so much better than Fractal

  • I've spent the last couple of months trying so hard to love the Fractal AX-8, but in the end, it just was not meant to be.


    I think everybody at this point, knows that they do an incredible job with effects and the way the unit was laid out was also stellar. But in the end, their amp tones always ended up sounding like modelers. I just could not, no matter what I did, no matter how much tweaking I did, they never to me sounded like a real tube amp.


    On the Fractal forum, I stressed a couple of times that I just wasn't able to get what I was looking for, and apparently the owner of the company doesn't like anything negative, no matter how professionally it is stated, on his forum So basically shut me up, he agreed to buy back the AX8, including shipping. I took him up on his offer.


    Soundpure has the option of trying a piece before you commit to buying so I decided to give Kemper a try.


    All can say is WOW!!!! It is everything I wanted and more. I am simply blown away!


    This thing is unfreakin' insane! So real, so life like, so many great options. I had read that Michael Britt was the "Gold Standard" in profiles so I ordered one of his before it arrived.


    The Kemper is The best investment I've made, practically in my entire music career, I'm so excited about it !

  • Both the Axe and the Kemper are phenomenal units and are driven by brilliant people, Cliff is just a little more flawed than Christoph when it comes to customer relations but it's fantastic that he's right there and you can be in contact with him and the same goes for Christoph although to a lesser extent (don't see him posting as often here).


    For me the Kemper just works out as the best option. And now with the new firmware 5.0 after using the delays I was struck with the thought that maybe we're heading into a new era of guitar where people are going to get over their worries about "amp sim tone" and start to mess around with effects again confident that they're not making things sound plasticky or digital. It was never a concern from the 60's up until the 90's then amp sims came along and everything became about trying to avoid sounding fake. The Kemper and other sims of analog effects have now got to the point that I feel it's safe to start messing around with FX again especially when they're at this level. What I love about the Kemper is that the FX are also really trying to nail that ultra rich but not quite pristine analog tone too.

  • Don't get me wrong, I really liked so many things about the Fractal product. It was really, really good, but to me, just not great from a purist perspective on just amp tone alone. I'm not a big effects guy, so lifelike is so, so important to me.


    The things that really put me off, and I mean way off, was the owner. Is he brilliant for what he has created, no question about it. That being said, he attacked me personally, and I could not have been more professional. Anything I did have negative to say, was minor. He just has very thin skin, and can't handle any kind of critisixm. So when he told me he would buy back my AX8, after he apologized to me in the forum, I simply thanked him and agreed to take him up on his offer. I can't see me ever doing business with that company again, not after the bad taste he left in my mouth. Which was too bad, because he should be proud of what he has accomplished, but also realize he is a competitive market and upsetting customers is simply not a very good idea.


    Regardless, I'm very, very happy with my Kemper......

  • I've had a crap ton of digital gear. The big ones were/are: Kemper (3 different ones), Axe FX Ultra, Axe FX II XL+,
    AX8, Line 6 Helix.


    I still have the Helix and a toaster Kemper (unpowered) and Remote. I don't see myself unloading any of those anytime soon since no one will probably be coming out with a generation 2 of either anytime soon.


    Helix is great for my church rig since I only have to carry the backpack with Helix and my gear in it, plus a dual guitar Mono backpack case for the rest. Simple setup and carry.


    Love the Kemper for the blues/rock/metal/country/pop band where I'm already carrying a bunch of stuff anyway. Extra piece in the remote to setup doesn't kill simplicity for that rig anyway. LoL!

    I am a Profile Whore... Sometimes a Recovering Profile Whore...
    but mostly a Complete and Utter Profile Whore... I want them all... aCk!!! 8|:love:

  • Don't get me wrong, I really liked so many things about the Fractal product. It was really, really good, but to me, just not great from a purist perspective on just amp tone alone. I'm not a big effects guy, so lifelike is so, so important to me.


    The things that really put me off, and I mean way off, was the owner. Is he brilliant for what he has created, no question about it. That being said, he attacked me personally, and I could not have been more professional. Anything I did have negative to say, was minor. He just has very thin skin, and can't handle any kind of critisixm. So when he told me he would buy back my AX8, after he apologized to me in the forum, I simply thanked him and agreed to take him up on his offer. I can't see me ever doing business with that company again, not after the bad taste he left in my mouth. Which was too bad, because he should be proud of what he has accomplished, but also realize he is a competitive market and upsetting customers is simply not a very good idea.


    Regardless, I'm very, very happy with my Kemper......

    I had a similar experience with the owner of Fractal and, for that reason alone, I swore I wouldn't get ANYTHING from them (at the time I was considering getting either the FX8 or the AX8). He really does have a problem with people saying anything remotely negative, no matter how you say it, about his devices. But, like you said, it is really a shame that he is this way because he does make great modeling devices. No one can take that away from him. In the end, he did me a favor since now I have both a Helix and a Kemper. Couldn't be happier :-).


    Anyway, welcome to the forum, Barry! I'm glad that the Kemper gave you the tones that you were seeking.

  • Welcome to the sane side and congratulations on your purchase. :thumbup:

    their amp tones always ended up sounding like modelers. I just could not, no matter what I did, no matter how much tweaking I did, they never to me sounded like a real tube amp.

    Exactly. The Fractal sounds like a better sounding solid state amp, but lacks the warmth of tubes which the Kemper captures. The Kemper is the ONLY reason I stayed with amp emulation units. (Except for S-Gear which sounds like the software equivalent of the Kemper). It was my last shot before going back to tubes exclusively (POD 2 > RP1000 > Eleven Rack > Kemper) I made the right decision.



    Quote from barryjohns2126

    apparently the owner of the company doesn't like anything negative

    Ya think? :D
    He knows he's not the only game in town anymore and many have jumped ship to a more accurate sounding unit.
    Many players (hardcore tube lovers) who are fond of their amps and know how they react can now profile them and take the same tone on the road leaving their valuable gear safely behind in the studio.


    The Kemper community here is 99% great people. (Well, there is, sometimes, that 1% whiny b***ch every once in a while. :D )

    The key to everything is patience.
    You get the chicken by hatching the egg, not by smashing it.
    -- Arnold H. Glasow


    If it doesn't produce results, don't do it.

    -- Me

  • I echo all the above. Exactly how I felt not too long ago, when I got my Kemper.

  • I echo all the above. Exactly how I felt not too long ago, when I got my Kemper.

    Same Here Barry :D
    I'm a fairly new Kemper owner and I still get that feeling when I turn on this colorful box of magic tone!! :thumbup:

    You know I'm born to lose, and gambling's for fools
    But that's the way I like it baby
    I don't wanna live forever

  • I actaually sold my ax8 today, both my Kempers are gonna stay.....

    Kemper Stage, KPA head, Remote, JH Audio Lola IEM, Shure PSM 900 wireless System, L-Acoustics 108P active FRFR monitor.

  • The only thing about Kemper that worried me, is what impact down the road is it going to have on future development of Tube Amp makers? Part of it already seems a little dirty, kinda like Napster back in the 90's. Modeling your own amps is one thing, but buying models. I worry that will come back to haunt us one day.


    Isn't it reasonable to pay like $250 per amp model with the revenue going to the amp manufacturer? Today, I can buy 10 amps for less than $50 bucks. Don't get me wrong, I did, and I use them, but something is just not right about it.

  • Isn't it reasonable to pay like $250 per amp model with the revenue going to the amp manufacturer?

    It's actually more reasonable for people to profile their amps and share them..free...which is how the community started out. (insert $0.02).


    You would need to have all the other devices pay for there models as well. The method is only different. At least with Kemper multiple people have bought amps. It has likely caused more sales in the tube amp world to tell the truth because people are more acquainted with a specific amp that they love and have gone out and bought it.

    "More Guitar in the Monitors" :thumbup:

    Edited once, last by bshaw92 ().

  • Everyone deserves respect!!


    Even non living objects deserve respect.


    I hated every time someone smashed their guitar on stage. I think guitars also deserve respect.


    The above is a given, but has absolutely no bearing on discussing amps and musical instrument. It's not disrespectful to point out negatives or shortcomings of any device. I personally have more respect for those who have enough emotional intelligence and maturity to deal with criticism regardless of their math ability and their latest inventions. It's no secret of mine that I have more respect to CK and in this regard I wave my right to use political correctness.


    What I say isn't arbitrarily or personal. It's based on how business is conducted in public. Example:


    Kemper Company: Just the other day CK chimed in to help someone in this forum who had bad mouthed the company in the same thread stating outrageous conclusions that KPA doesn't work and the company is lying etc. That tip from CK showed and helped the individual solve the problem and he turned into a believer and he even apologized for his behavior. Conclusion: That's professional and respect worthy.


    Fractal: Completely the opposite of my example of the Kemper Company based on what I read in this thread and million others around the net. In this thread the OP indicated he asked professionally (didn't tell them they're lying about modeling or that they're only using Schematics and never owned the amps they modeled). Where did his professionalism get him? What it got and it gets everyone else who points the shortfalls or negatives " the company doesn't like anything negative, no matter how professionally it is stated, on his forum So basically shut me up"


    Conclusion: I made my own conclusion, but everyone is clearly free to make their own conclusion.


    Edit: Just want to add that my decision to go with KPA has nothing to do with respect, if I thought the AXE II sounded or felt better, I would have bought it instead. I'm interested in the sound, unfortunately. respect comes second priority in this regard but fortunately, the Kemper has both the sound and the respect worthy customer relation. Professionals all the way!! Emotional intelligence will always win!!

    Edited 6 times, last by Dean_R ().

  • The only thing about Kemper that worried me, is what impact down the road is it going to have on future development of Tube Amp makers? Part of it already seems a little dirty, kinda like Napster back in the 90's. Modeling your own amps is one thing, but buying models. I worry that will come back to haunt us one day.


    Isn't it reasonable to pay like $250 per amp model with the revenue going to the amp manufacturer? Today, I can buy 10 amps for less than $50 bucks. Don't get me wrong, I did, and I use them, but something is just not right about it.

    You'll probably be dead and gone before modelers have any impact on amp sales. Seriously. Take a look at the number of posts on the Amp and Cabs forum over at The Gear Page compared to the Digital & Modeling Gear section. No comparison. In my opinion, amp modeling isn't even close to overtaking real amps. In my experience, there are myriad amp purists that wouldn't spit on a modeler. I think modeling is the wave of the future and will be a threat to real amp sales some day. It's simply not an issue at this point, in my opinion.


    Further, I don't think it's reasonable to pay $250 per profile because you're only buying a slice of an amp. It's the sound an amp at (a) specific setting(s).

  • I'm not going to knock Fractal Audio, their product tones, or Cliff Chase. While he may come across as gruff or unfriendly to some, I think Fractal Audio's support is second to none, and I'd say the same about Kemper Amps. I think the people on this forum are great, and I've had nothing but positive interactions with people over at the Fractal forum despite that community knowing I'm a Kemper owner. I love the Kemper's raw amp tones. I think they're some of the most accurate reproductions of the amps they're based on. That said, I've gotten some killer tones out of the Axe, as well. There's a lot I love about both units and some I don't. Fortunately, I don't have to choose one over the other so I don't have one foot squarely in any particular camp and have no dog in the fight. For me, I think both units are capable of outstanding tones. While I think the Kemper's amp tones have an organic quality that's superior, I don't have a problem creating outstanding tones using the Axe. I just don't screw with all of the advanced parameters, whereas a lot of people tend to get knee deep in them.