At least with Kemper multiple people have bought amps. It has likely caused more sales in the tube amp world to tell the truth because people are more acquainted with a specific amp that they love and have gone out and bought it.
I agree, and you'd think this would be especially-true for the boutique manufacturers who most of us would never even have heard of were it not for the Kemper.
@ColdFrixion I'm sure that Fractal could have handled the OP in a more professional manner by respecting him and not shutting him up (his words) and I have no doubt that they could have saved him as a customer instead of quickly offering to buy the unit back.but it all goes back to emotional stability and not having public or customer relation managers handling these situations, but instead the head of the company who's good at programming and design handles public relations when clearly it's not his strength by any stretch. I and most consumers judge companies nowadays by how well they handle a situation when things go wrong. Some people in many companies, shouldn't be exposed to customers at all , specifically when things go wrong!
the head of the company... handles public relations when clearly it's not his strength by any stretch
We see this time and again these days, and invariably ego is involved, IMHO Dean.
@ColdFrixion I'm sure that Fractal could have handled the OP in a more professional manner by respecting him and not shutting him up (his words) and I have no doubt that they could have saved him as a customer instead of quickly offering to buy the unit back.but it all goes back to emotional stability and not having public or customer relation managers handling these situations, but instead the head of the company who's good at programming and design handles public relations when clearly it's not his strength by any stretch. I and most consumers judge companies nowadays by how well they handle a situation when things go wrong. Some people in many companies, shouldn't be exposed to customers at all , specifically when things go wrong!
Without having seen the interaction in question, I have no idea what he said exactly. I do frequent the Fractal Audio forum on a regular basis and anyone else who does will tell you Cliff Chase doesn't beat around the bush. His bedside manner is direct, but I've never seen him respond to anyone in a way I'd consider out and out rude or that I thought was uncalled for. I can see how his matter of fact demeanor might be construed as unfriendly or impersonal by some, but to me he comes across as a straight shooter. I like that, personally. It's not everyone's cup of tea and that's fine, but it doesn't bother me. He certainly didn't have to buy the OP's unit back.
That said, I don't base my buying decisions on the personality of the owner of the company. The fact is, Fractal Audio has a track record of excellent support and attentively bend over backwards to help users when they have a problem.
Think about it. I certainly don't have to own an Axe FX. I could easily sell mine. After all, I do have a Kemper. I love mine, and I like that the owner gets personally involved in solving issues when a user has a problem. That company has some of the best product support I've ever seen.
We see this time and again these days, and invariably ego is involved, IMHO Dean
In the past I worked in a small company where the CEO one day insisted he was going to handle finance relationships with banks! It was disastrous that we didn't even know if we should laugh or cry 
but I laugh now because I try to find humor in everything. It makes things easier to bare 
Since buying and using rack gear and such since the mid 80's, I have found that more tweek = less happiness. Comparing tweek is relevant when comparing gear. All of my favorite gear of every type required very little time to dial in what is needed and get to playing / creating. If I have to keep referencing a manual, study more documents than required to fly a boeing 747, and still not completely happy with the end result, to me it is a fail. Hello ebay. For the gear that either immediately sounds good or with just a few adjustments here or there gets me to an excited level of play, I have a winner. When I used to use various rack gear with clean/distorted guitar sounds, the first thing I did was turn off all the fluff and listen to the basic sounds. That usually eliminated 90% of them. As the saying goes, you can't polish a turd. Later when preamps got better in rack gear, real tubes were required, and also usually a nice tube power amp, which then makes you step back, look at your rack and go: "I just made a heavier more awkward guitar tube head." Then modelers came out, people still saying "You need a tube power amp" which to me defeated the purpose of the effort. Since Kemper, all of that crap is gone. Even if you are not exactly 100% close to your sound, just to avoid all the other bs connections and aggravations I say close enough, let your fingers make up the difference. Like many I have been selling off gear because of the Kemper. My tube heads I fear in a few years will really lose value since this high mark the Kemper reached is only the new beginning and everything of the past will just fall away to collectors of nostalgia.
My tube heads I fear in a few years will really lose value since this high mark the Kemper reached is only the new beginning and everything of the past will just fall away to collectors of nostalgia.
Until Kemper finds a way to profile amps so that the controls respond like the knobs on an actual amp, there will be a need for real amps... if nothing else for profiling purposes. That said, it will be a good long while before modelers even come close to overtaking amp sales, in my opinion. Right now, modelers are a very niche market by comparison.
The fact is, Fractal Audio has a track record of excellent support and attentively bend over backwards to help users when they have a problem.
Think about it. I certainly don't have to own an Axe FX. I could easily sell mine. After all, I do have a Kemper. I love mine, and I like that the owner gets personally involved in solving issues when a user has a problem. That company has some of the best product support I've ever seen.
Would like some of that right about now.
Until Kemper finds a way to profile amps so that the controls respond like the knobs on an actual amp, there will be a need for real amps... if nothing else for profiling purposes. That said, it will be a good long while before modelers even come close to overtaking amp sales, in my opinion. Right now, modelers are a very niche market by comparison.
I don't think so. Kemper is the new benchmark for this tech IMHO, and others will follow. It is really good now, give it a year or so and I think there will be another mass extinction. Also the size/flexibility of the gear is way beyond any tube tech, and for newer kids growing up in a super tech world, that is what they will look to. If the costs for this gear ever get down to the point where it is accessible to the masses, game over.
I don't think so. Kemper is the new benchmark for this tech IMHO, and others will follow. It is really good now, give it a year or so and I think there will be another mass extinction. Also the size/flexibility of the gear is way beyond any tube tech, and for newer kids growing up in a super tech world, that is what they will look to.
I love the Kemper. There's nothing wrong with it as is, but by the same token there's absolutely nothing to indicate that it's making a dent in amp sales. Compare the number of amps actually sold on eBay to Kempers sold. Amp sales crush it. I mean, I'll take a Kemper over a tube amp all day long but the fact is it's not a threat to the bottom line of amp manufacturers.
It's very hard to predict what will stay and what will go but until this technology gets affordable for most guitarists as
Nemo13 said., no matter how good it is, it will never affect tube amp sales.Once it becomes dirt cheap, watch out. Modeling amps might take over if they sound as good as kemper and It's really a matter of time when someone puts good technology in an amp. Line 6 is probably already planning their Helix Modeling amp. Bias head isn't even there in quality so I don't see anything there for a while.
Kemper and Fractal could always be around for the few who can afford them as they will also evolve. At 2 grands, lets's face it, they will never ever be mainstream when someone can get a 5150 or a fender tube amp for around $700
Cliff is just a little more flawed than Christoph
Errr. "just a little"?
I was incredibly impressed by the OP's story. Bought your AX8 back? Wow.
I generally have a very cautious attitude about the Axe FX, because I've never owned one and I preferred the Kemper's profiling concept to modelling when I bought a device.
I've also heard some horror stories about people being banned on their forums and on TGP because they say they don't like the Axe FX.
But this story totally changed my perception of how the company is trying to sell as many units as they can. And they must be doing very well to be able to buy back a unit if a user complains.
That story mentioned earlier about the user that bad-mouthed Kemper Amplifiers... It's not the only instance I've seen that happen on these forums.
A lot of the time, it seems like deliberate trolling... You know, make a few posts, then turn around and call the product lousy.
In that regard, I sometimes wonder about Kemper Amp's motives for not curtailing that kind of criticism.
It is definitely a more mature way of handling it, but at the same time, it is counterproductive. Some guy will type "Does Kemper suck" on google, see that post and say "this is not what I want."
I think Cliff Chase is doing his best to avoid that kind of thread being found on search.
Of course, while it's okay for that to happen on the Axe FX forums, it takes a d*ck like xxxxxxxxxxx to nerf threads on TGP as well.
In that regard, I sometimes wonder about Kemper Amp's motives for not curtailing that kind of criticism.
we believe in the product and in our and this forums's ability to discuss perceived problems and issues. often what was called 'trolling' by other members was in reality a frustrated user and mostly due to user error.
It is definitely a more mature way of handling it, but at the same time, it is counterproductive. Some guy will type "Does Kemper suck" on google, see that post and say "this is not what I want."
I sincerely doubt anyone uses this kind of technique to (honestly) research a product online.
Of course, while it's okay for that to happen on the Axe FX forums, it takes a d*ck like xxxxxxxxxxx to nerf threads on TGP as well.
not cool - name removed.
we believe in the product and in our and this forums's ability to discuss perceived problems and issues. often what was called 'trolling' by other members was in reality a frustrated user and mostly due to user error.
I sincerely doubt anyone uses this kind of technique to (honestly) research a product online.
not cool - name removed.
I appreciate the moderation, but an explanation of my post.
1 & 2)
You'd be surprised how many times I've typed "xxx sucks" or "problems with xxxx" in order to find deficiencies in a product. This is of course in addition to other searches, but it is quite a valid search tactic.
https://www.google.com.sg/sear…ei=r54UWKL8JqfaugT6t7L4BA
Look at the top 3 results. A thread on this forum from 2013 is the second-ranked link.
Granted, a lot of users like myself would have jumped in to defend the product on seeing a thread like that.
But yeah, it definitely shows up. And some people don't really read through all the links, they'll click on the one at TGP.
And DonPetersen, if you think there have never been any trolls on this forum, you are horribly wrong.
In fact, assuming that there have never been any trolls at all is just being naive.
3) That's his user name. Perhaps you should remove d*ck too, because anyone who reads that word alongside TGP will automatically think of the same gentleman.
EDIT: I really don't care, but far worse things have been said to me on these forums and no mod felt the need to censor it... Nor did I feel the need for hand holding in the situation
we believe in the product and in our and this forums's ability to discuss perceived problems and issues. often what was called 'trolling' by other members was in reality a frustrated user and mostly due to user error.
The voice of reason. Massive thumbs up.
_
The voice of reason. Massive thumbs up.
Agreed, Michael. Cederick's being the most-recent example.
It's fantastic to know that the mods have some faith in our faith in the product and our ability to defend it and troubleshoot user-induced issues.
You'd be surprised how many times I've typed "xxx sucks" or "problems with xxxx" in order to find deficiencies in a product. This is of course in addition to other searches, but it is quite a valid search tactic.
https://www.google.com.sg/sear…ei=r54UWKL8JqfaugT6t7L4BA
Look at the top 3 results. A thread on this forum from 2013 is the second-ranked link.
I agree it's a valid search term in the sense that Google will return results, however it appears that no one actually uses it, at least according to Google Trends.
I love the Kemper. There's nothing wrong with it as is, but by the same token there's absolutely nothing to indicate that it's making a dent in amp sales. Compare the number of amps actually sold on eBay to Kempers sold. Amp sales crush it. I mean, I'll take a Kemper over a tube amp all day long but the fact is it's not a threat to the bottom line of amp manufacturers.
Well yeah, right now. I am talking in the future. Kemper has reached a real plateau in the 'amp' market. IMHO. Others will follow, prices will get cheaper for some, and most will go that way. Tube amps only survive really because there was nothing to replace them completely, the tech in rack gear and such never got us there. Now that has changed. And a huge factor too is size! An AXE FX is DEEP, what is it, 14" or something? You have to get a big awkward box to put it in. Kemper is nice and shallow like TC Electronic rack gear, you can have a neat little head or box. Soundwise for example, I plug in my Diezel Herbert and jam one day love it. Next day, I plug up my Kemper and start wondering why I have my Diezel. With all the studios recording and sampling and profiling amps, eventually it will be to a point where the originals will not bee needed at all. That is the future, how soon it will get here depends. Price wise it 'appears' to be expensive for a Kemper and foot controller, but really, when you add up a tube head, effects pedals or rack, etc, etc.. it is same or cheaper to have a Kemper (and a lot less equipment too) It is just the 'up front all at once cost' most people have as apposed to adding gear and such in pieces which seems to be more affordable that way. Anyways, like everything, the future will weed out the bad / obsolete gear and move ahead with the great gear. It reminds me of when something like the guitar rack ADA came out, what a blast and good sounds compared to so much others, and so much has changed from those days... The problem with rack was always the secret weapons. "How do I put this ____ in my rack chain?!? I NEED it!" And so we all ended up with 400 lb 14 space racks that looked like Star Wars, haha. But then, when they kept getting more and more fancy, we had gear tech overload and everyone wanted simple again. Never losing sight of simple and quick tone gratification is a must to continue to survive. I loved Eventide gear, but I always got so frustrated with the programing, or Lexicon's old stuff... I loved simple things like Rolands SDX 330, all the sounds were so good and so easy to just adjust a few things... All the stuff that sounded good but took too long to mess with I had to sell or go crazy.
