Kemper is so much better than Fractal

Quote from Nemo13

Well yeah, right now. I am talking in the future. Kemper has reached a real plateau in the 'amp' market. IMHO. Others will follow, prices will get cheaper for some, and most will go that way. Tube amps only survive really because there was nothing to replace them completely, the tech in rack gear and such never got us there. Now that has changed. And a huge factor too is size! An AXE FX is DEEP, what is it, 14" or something? You have to get a big awkward box to put it in. Kemper is nice and shallow like TC Electronic rack gear, you can have a neat little head or box. Soundwise for example, I plug in my Diezel Herbert and jam one day love it. Next day, I plug up my Kemper and start wondering why I have my Diezel. With all the studios recording and sampling and profiling amps, eventually it will be to a point where the originals will not bee needed at all. That is the future, how soon it will get here depends. Price wise it 'appears' to be expensive for a Kemper and foot controller, but really, when you add up a tube head, effects pedals or rack, etc, etc.. it is same or cheaper to have a Kemper (and a lot less equipment too) It is just the 'up front all at once cost' most people have as apposed to adding gear and such in pieces which seems to be more affordable that way. Anyways, like everything, the future will weed out the bad / obsolete gear and move ahead with the great gear. It reminds me of when something like the guitar rack ADA came out, what a blast and good sounds compared to so much others, and so much has changed from those days... The problem with rack was always the secret weapons. "How do I put this ____ in my rack chain?!? I NEED it!" And so we all ended up with 400 lb 14 space racks that looked like Star Wars, haha. But then, when they kept getting more and more fancy, we had gear tech overload and everyone wanted simple again. Never losing sight of simple and quick tone gratification is a must to continue to survive. I loved Eventide gear, but I always got so frustrated with the programing, or Lexicon's old stuff... I loved simple things like Rolands SDX 330, all the sounds were so good and so easy to just adjust a few things... All the stuff that sounded good but took too long to mess with I had to sell or go crazy.

In my opinion, modeling is the wave of the future. And yes, eventually I think amps will be relegated to a niche market much the way vintage typewriters and computers from the '70s are now. I can't begin to guess when that'll be. However, I predict it'll happen when 1) costs match (or are lower than) that of a decent tube amp 2) most people (including amp purists) agree that the sound is 100% indistinguishable from the genuine article and 3) the controls react exactly like those of the amps they're based on. I suspect there will come a time when cell phones will easily be able to run such modeling apps. It will likely become so accessible to the average person that even the most hardened amp purist will find it nearly impossible to resist. I don't think that day is right around the corner, and if I were forced to guess, I'd wager it won't happen for at least another 15 (or more) years. When that day comes though, it's quite possible most amp manufacturers will feel pressured to incorporate the technology into their amplifiers in order to stay profitable. Of course, I have little doubt there will always be the odd old school purist who steadfastly refuses to adapt and insists that modeling technology is inferior.

Quote from barryjohns2126

I have a Suhr Badger that I absolutely love. My favorite amp I've ever owned and I've owned a lot. Takes overdrive pedals better than any amp I've ever played.

Now I'm asking myself, what is the point keeping it? Other than my stubbornness, I can't find a reason to keep it. I could buy another guitar with the proceedes.

The only duty it pulls since I got the Kemper is to sit there looking pretty! It does that very well by the way!

Profile the living crap out of it, then sell it.

I'm just not so sure about the policy involved behind it, is all.

We banned the monkey avatar (and many more sprung up), have decried OT posts to the point that a moderator will nowadays always intervene, and ban loyal users who post threads with headings that are more than 60 characters, or guys who contribute to the community with sick workarounds to things like the looper and make-do Editors.

Yet we're open for all kinds of posts that often descend into sledging matches?

I'd just point out that I'm not usually the one who cries, "troll", first.

I also have little problem with this issue, I'd point out. It's great to have massive flaming happen on some of those posts.

I was just pointing out what I see to be a rather odd position when the manufacturer has clearly stated in other posts, "our forum, our rules", or something to that effect.

Before I become a banned (l)user, I'll also caveat my previous post by stating that my official policy on the forum has always been:

edited by Mod:
*removed*
huge font, red letters,
incredibly poor choice of words

Quote from ColdFrixion

In my opinion, modeling is the wave of the future. And yes, eventually I think amps will be relegated to a niche market much the way vintage typewriters and computers from the '70s are now. I can't begin to guess when that'll be. However, I predict it'll happen when 1) costs match (or are lower than) that of a decent tube amp 2) most people (including amp purists) agree that the sound is 100% indistinguishable from the genuine article and 3) the controls react exactly like those of the amps they're based on. I suspect there will come a time when cell phones will easily be able to run such modeling apps. It will likely become so accessible to the average person that even the most hardened amp purist will find it nearly impossible to resist. I don't think that day is right around the corner, and if I were forced to guess, I'd wager it won't happen for at least another 15 (or more) years. When that day comes though, it's quite possible most amp manufacturers will feel pressured to incorporate the technology into their amplifiers in order to stay profitable. Of course, I have little doubt there will always be the odd old school purist who steadfastly refuses to adapt and insists that modeling technology is inferior.

#3 is shortsighted by people then. Why have to act like that exact amp, as long as they react like AN amp. That is all that really matters, can it be used as the part of an instrument, like a tube amp. And that answer is already yes.

Amp sales will he fine . Just keep endorsing artists and they'll sell .

Quote from cybermgk

#3 is shortsighted by people then. Why have to act like that exact amp, as long as they react like AN amp. That is all that really matters, can it be used as the part of an instrument, like a tube amp. And that answer is already yes.

That's all that matters to you. However, many amp purists will want the controls on a modeler to react just like the knobs on their own amp in order to dial in the exact tone they're looking for. The KPA offers a lot of control over the sound of a profile after the fact, but it's not exactly the same. If it were, commercial profilers would simply offer a single profile with one setting at different mic positions rather than multiple profiles of the same amp at various settings.

Quote from ColdFrixion

That's all that matters to you. However, many amp purists will want the controls on a modeler to react just like the knobs on their own amp in order to dial in the exact tone they're looking for. The KPA offers a lot of control over the sound of a profile after the fact, but it's not exactly the same. If it were, commercial profilers would simply offer a single profile with one setting at different mic positions rather than multiple profiles of the same amp at various settings.

The tough part about having tone stacks that react exactly like the profiled amp is that the KPA is a much more "open" system than modelers that rely on their developers to create the amp models. Since anybody with an amp & a mic can make their own profiles, the best Kemper could reasonably do is offer some general presets that are accurate to the most popular few dozen amps out there, which would lead to people complaining that there isn't an accurate tone stack preset for their oddball, rare amp.

Quote from nightlight

Before I become a banned (l)user, I'll also caveat my previous post by stating that my official policy on the forum has always been:

edited by Mod:
*removed*
huge font, red letters,
incredibly poor choice of words

Display More

Thanks, Mods. I thought it was hilarious.

For anyone wondering, what I said was (paraphrasing this)

PROTEKT THE KEMPERER!

@ColdFrixion

I like to compare it with the keysplayers or thr drummers...they might use a lots of "modelling" on stage and in the studio but there is nothing like a real drums or a real piano..you still have them everywhere despite the progress on drum tools and digital stuff for keys and synths.

For us guitar players there will be a very similiar development.There will come a time you just wont see anymore a guitar player with a tube amp on stage but only with a Kemper or an axe fx or whatever..but tube amps will remain the real deal.The hot stuff most of us will keep in their private studio,rehearsal room,mancave.Nothong sounds like this when you stand next to this..a tube amp and the matching cab..

Allthough I really start to love the sound and all the advantages of the Kemper I will keep my favorite tube amps.And only if it is to look at them..I dont know.

Things are changing faster than in the past, with AXE and now Kemper, the path to the future is there. Tube amps are heavy, twitchy, fragile, and limited. Yes, limited, My Diezel will not sound like my SLO for ex. As we know, Kemper is a box of a thousand amps that is small, light, durable, and plenty of connection options. In a few years, I could fully expect new things to surpass today and go well beyond any tube amps tiny nuances. I am a tone snob. Right now, the small differences are pretty much insignificant and do not effect anything. The future is to the new tech as always and I say welcome. Tube has had its long run but is fast becoming obsolete. Big heavy gear is no longer needed, and that is a good thing. My advise to my fellow tone snobs is start selling your gear while it is worth something and wanted. In 5 years it won't be. Doubters keep this post for posterity.

Quote from Nemo13

Things are changing faster than in the past, with AXE and now Kemper, the path to the future is there. Tube amps are heavy, twitchy, fragile, and limited. Yes, limited, My Diezel will not sound like my SLO for ex. As we know, Kemper is a box of a thousand amps that is small, light, durable, and plenty of connection options. In a few years, I could fully expect new things to surpass today and go well beyond any tube amps tiny nuances. I am a tone snob. Right now, the small differences are pretty much insignificant and do not effect anything. The future is to the new tech as always and I say welcome. Tube has had its long run but is fast becoming obsolete. Big heavy gear is no longer needed, and that is a good thing. My advise to my fellow tone snobs is start selling your gear while it is worth something and wanted. In 5 years it won't be. Doubters keep this post for posterity.

If anyone else feels their gear is worth nothing in five years contact me so I can buy it before it's truly worthless .

Quote from Frodebro

The tough part about having tone stacks that react exactly like the profiled amp is that the KPA is a much more "open" system than modelers that rely on their developers to create the amp models. Since anybody with an amp & a mic can make their own profiles, the best Kemper could reasonably do is offer some general presets that are accurate to the most popular few dozen amps out there, which would lead to people complaining that there isn't an accurate tone stack preset for their oddball, rare amp.

"Tonestack Presets" would be good enough for me.

+1 on that idea.

Quote from barryjohns2126

I have a Suhr Badger that I absolutely love. My favorite amp I've ever owned and I've owned a lot. Takes overdrive pedals better than any amp I've ever played.

Now I'm asking myself, what is the point keeping it? Other than my stubbornness, I can't find a reason to keep it. I could buy another guitar with the proceedes.

1) The KPA may or may not react the same way with your overdrive pedals. You would need to test them out.
2) An amp can be more convenient for jam sessions or gigs where guitars do not go through the P.A.

I will never sell my original JTM-45 nor my Mesa Mark V.

Quote from HCarlH

1) The KPA may or may not react the same way with your overdrive pedals. You would need to test them out.2) An amp can be more convenient for jam sessions or gigs where guitars do not go through the P.A. Sure use the KPA just like your old tech amp. It does that. But, it also doesn't have to as well.

I will never sell my original JTM-45 nor my Mesa Mark V.

1) Even if it doesn't, again, I ask, so what. We use overdrive pedals to do one of several things. 1 is to achieve dirt at low volumes, That is part of what the Kemper and modelers are all about. 2, To adjust tone a la a tube screamer. With thousands of profiles, and the ability to tweak them, getting that particular tone is a non problem.

2) Disagree. First there are powered Kempers. And, there are powere CABs, How is a powered Kemper and a CAB less convenient than a head and cab? No need to have to go through the PA.

Buying Back AX8 Unit:
That Fractal's owner bought back the unit can only be considered a classy thing to do and I respect him for it. For whatever reasons, he made his customer happy. Kudos to Cliff.

TGP:
Never been censored. Been in my share of "fights" back in the day and yes, negative comments on the Fractal caused them, negative comments on the Kemper, never. But I've had the opportunity to PM and deal with the person spoken of over there and I have to say, they are a really nice person to deal with. I think the Internet brings out a style that is not in league with people's actual substance.

Kemper Forum:
This forum has had it's ugly people and ugly threads (i.e. icon thread) but in the end I think the community self-healed and because better for it. There are a LOT of mature folks here, Don, Ingolf, Paults, etc who have smoothed over a lot of issues, prevented many, and mentored folks, certainly me and I'm glad for it all.

The Admin here have been great. Even when we've had discussions about what was said in certain posts they didn't like, they've been entirely respectful and nipped things before they got out of hand. Also, they have personally been very helpful with my non-Kemper-related guitar needs. Much appreciated.

This vs That:
In the end, use your ears, know how your style likes to interact with your gear, and your journey will take you to the products that stream-line your Art the way you want it to. No one forces anyone to buy anything, so it all comes down to each one of us to know what is best for our needs.

I play side-by-side with a friend who has the Fractal FXII and never have I felt anything but lucky MY product exists for MY playing. And HE seems to really like HIS product. When I play his, It sounds really good. My major peeve is Fractal's lack of long-term support, which I'm eternally grateful for Kemper's support model. Also, I do think the Kemper's ability to profile amps yield better sounding base amps. I think many Fractal base amps require FX to smooth them over into professional tones and some are great as they are (more than there used to be, so it's improved a lot these past 2 years). I think the Kemper's effects are now pushing towards world class and need only Reverbs overhauled to be a clear and complete choice for even ardent opposers. Perhaps then the only complaint will be the boot-up time or large rack space. And those are all bonafide complaints. Nothing is perfect, but this product is the most perfect guitar tool I've ever owned or heard of.

My experience on these various forums has been:
1) opinions aren't wrong, just different
2) there are no facial expressions or tone-of-voice to go with comments, so people come across strong, are read into deeply, and some folks are just immature. But in the end, IF you poke further and get the chance to know such folks, they often surprise you by being really cool folks. So when I have a conflict, I PM that person and things seem different. They become better because of it.
3) the Kemper doesn't have to put Fractal down to make itself look good. And long-term users seem to know this and make this forum a cool place with such confidence and maturity.
4) The Forum support here on any topic is tremendous. Just PM somebody and write them. I've learned about the world from the many users all over the world and while I've never travelled outside of this hemisphere, I get the clear impression I'd be quite welcomed by any number of these guys. All because we're in the same Kemper Club. How cool is that?

Quote from db9091

My major peeve is Fractal's lack of long-term support, which I'm eternally grateful for Kemper's support model.

I could be wrong but I believe the KPA was released in 2011. The Axe FX II Mark I & II were also released in 2011 and Fractal Audio actively releases new firmware updates for them.

welcome barry. I agree with your OP (apart from the Gold standard bit) : )

So happy your in Kemper ville!.