Headphones for Kemper and Other Tweaking Questions

  • Hi All


    I've trawled through the threads and found some discussion about Headphones for the Kemper - quite a mixed reaction with some loving the sound and others not. Then there's the whole debate about what type of headphones to get.


    Here's my confusion: the general consensus is that you need headphones with as flat a response as possible, reference headphones if you will. But then I read that listening to mp3 music through these types of headphones sounds terrible, with harsh highs etc.


    If I am to buy the kemper, I will almost exclusively use it through headphones, and my style is to play along with backing tracks or playing along with my mp3 tracks. So if reference headphones don't sound good with mp3 songs, is then a recipe for a bad listening experience?


    Also, for those kemper owers out there, how much "tweaking" do you generally need to do to purchased presets (eg mbritt). I use software at the moment like Guitar Rig or SGear and really don't enjoy all the tweaking that has to be done. I'm a simple man and just want to be able to download a preset and have it pretty much the way I want to sound (I can live with mucking about with treble or bass or something simple like that, but to have to be changing cabinets and IRs and other effects just irritates me. I want to spend my time playing the guitar, not playing with the computer).


    Any thoughts on the above would be much appreciated. It's a lot of money to fork out if it is not a great experience. And the biggest problem is that in my city, there are no retailers so I can't even go in and try one.

  • I don't think that it is quite right that "reference" headphones sound terrible for listenig to usual music. It depends on what you are asking soundwise. Many headphones already color the sound by adding bass or a "loud"ish eq curve. If you are asking that from a headphone then don't chose a studio alike. But if you do want to hear the music the way the mastering engineer tried to let it sound then do listen to it with a studio headphone.
    I clearly prefer listening to everything with a neutral pair of headphones. And in the meantime even my wife changed to an expensive but more neutral inEar monitoring Headphone.


    And I am with you for the tweaking. I don't do that much and I have only few paid profiles so far. I think those who tweak more do buy more profiles and that for different reasons. But there are so many good free profiles to try that forehand I think you don't need much paid ones for quite a starting time. Perhaps when you advance in playing level or the situation changes perhaps. But at the moment you can find a profile for almost all needs in RM or her at the forum..

  • Firstly, welcome, Angus! Born the year after me, eh? ('67)


    But then I read that listening to mp3 music through these types of headphones sounds terrible, with harsh highs etc.

    As I'm about to say below, if an mp3 sounds bad there's a possibility that a pair of headphones that just happens to have a response curve that tames the offending frequency areas could make it sound "better", but that would surely be a crapshoot doomed to a terrible hit : miss ratio. Let's face it, if an mp3 has been badly encoded, it's not your fault unless you made it. Thankfully the aim is to get it sounding as close-to-the-original as possible, so there's more likelihood that the quality and spectral balance of the original file will "offend" your ears IMHO, especially if higher bit rates are employed.


    If I am to buy the kemper, I will almost exclusively use it through headphones, and my style is to play along with backing tracks or playing along with my mp3 tracks. So if reference headphones don't sound good with mp3 songs, is then a recipe for a bad listening experience?

    I can guarantee you that "flat-response", studio-grade 'phones will provide you with the best-for-most-situations middle ground you're looking for. As a bonus, you'll hear your guitar tones the way the Profilers "intend" you do. You'll be able to have some confidence in the efficacy of your tweaks too, as well as any recording decisions you make.


    The danger, apart from the obvious above, is that resonant peaks in any mp3 file you listen to will "double up" with those of sub-par 'phones. If you're listening through "non-linear" 'phones, its non-linearities will "cancel" and boost those of the source material "randomly" across the board as you switch from one song to the next. Hardly ideal. Highly recommended if you want to live dangerously audio-wise, and not "audio-wise" IMHO!


    Also, for those kemper owers out there, how much "tweaking" do you generally need to do to purchased presets (eg mbritt). I use software at the moment like Guitar Rig or SGear and really don't enjoy all the tweaking that has to be done. I'm a simple man and just want to be able to download a preset and have it pretty much the way I want to sound (I can live with mucking about with treble or bass or something simple like that, but to have to be changing cabinets and IRs and other effects just irritates me. I want to spend my time playing the guitar, not playing with the computer).

    I too, mate. As @Nightwish2 suggested, stick with the Rig exchange for now. Plenty of good stuff there and your preference for tweaking only the basic EQ stack is perfectly-understandable; you'll not be alone in that approach. Yes, commercial Profiles will provide a better hit : miss ratio in terms of their need to be tweaked to sound good, but the counter to that is to choose Rigs from the Exchange that sound close to what you're after in the first place. Don't waste your time trying to polish a turd when you've got almost 9000 Rigs to choose from, IOW.


    That said, I urge you to at least try out the amp parameters. I keep the first of the 3 or so pages open at all times, making Definition and Amp Compression (probably my fave parameters) quickly-accessible. You might find that you prefer other parameters such as Pick Level or Clarity, but as I suggested, becoming familiar with the Amp parameters is mighty handy. I even prefer to hit the Definition parameter before I touch the EQ, something you might want to try. Increase it for more-modern-sounding tone, and decrease it for more vintage goodness and mojo. I love it; it's my "mojo" knob, so to speak.


    Any thoughts on the above would be much appreciated. It's a lot of money to fork out if it is not a great experience. And the biggest problem is that in my city, there are no retailers so I can't even go in and try one.

    Understood. I couldn't audition one either. Thankfully for you, I've not seen anyone's not being impressed on day one, or even in the first 5 minutes for that matter, unless something basic had been missed in the setup / listening environment of the unit.


    Statistically, the chances of your not being happy are practically nil.


    Hope this helps, Angus.

  • I resisted recommending anything lest this turn into a "these headphones are the best-bang-for-buck pair out there" thread, but if we're going to go there, after testing all the big names and models out there years ago, I went for the Sennie HD25-1 due to its flat response, natural sound and awesome cleanliness even at ridiculously-high monitoring levels. Field-replaceable parts and "universal" compatibility due to its super-low impedance too.

  • Thanks a lot for the responses guys.


    I guess what I could do is go to a shop where I am and try out some flat response headphones and just listen to my music. If that sounds good, then I can assume the guitar will aso sound good?

  • It depends of course what someone wants. I do not ever want a headphone that is coloring the sound remarkeble for everything concerning making music. If a cheap heaphone for my mobile does I don't care too much.

  • But then I read that listening to mp3 music through these types of headphones sounds terrible, with harsh highs etc.

    In general: flat monitor speakers and studio headphones try to be as *true* and honest as possible. They try to, but nothing is perfect and hence there are still slight differences.


    Honest and true means: a bad mix will sound bad and a good mix will sound good. You can hear flaws much better than on more hifi-ish speakers / headphones. This is intended. You want to *monitor* your recordings and sounds and tweak those to perfection.


    The biggest benefit of the studio grade stuff: the really good mixes out there will sound outstanding! And an excellent amp like the Kemper will sound outstanding, if you tweaked it to your needs.

    Ne travaillez jamais.

  • DT 770 pro 250 ohm here. Not really happy with that one because it's a little bright and harsh for me, but for tweaking its very good because you cut the heights when tweaking and erase the mids. When i hear the tweaked sound later on my monitors or my frfr i get the benefit. The sounds are never to harsh or thin.


    Cheers
    Frank

  • I was on the market for a pair of headphones and I really wanted to try the DT880s on the recommendation of a lot of people on these forums.


    But at around S$600, they were out of my budget. I would rather use that money elsewhere than a pair of cans that I would not mix on, irrespective of how flat they are.


    I went for the ATH M50X. It was about half the price and sounds *brilliant* with the Kemper and recordings.

  • I bought some Senheiser HD650's a couple of years ago. I believe the original RRP on them was £400 UK but I got them for £250. Still a lot of money for headphones but I've not regretted it at all - they're fantastic.


    For mixing, they get you close but I prefer to mix on monitors anyway (not that I'm anything like experienced so don't listen to me!!). For playing Kemper and for listening to music? Excellent on both counts :)

  • I had a KRK DN 6400, tried now the ATH 50 MX and the 40 MX
    and must say
    the ATH 50 MX is really the Yamaha DXR 10 as a headphone
    outstanding good Sounding with the KPA
    You get a really 3 dimensional Sound with the 50 MX
    The best you can get for this Money

  • Well as a follow up, I went into a local shop today to try some headphones. My thoughts were to just try a pair before I got the kemper to see what all the fuss is about for high end headphones.


    I currently use beats headphones which will no doubt be the ridicule of many on hear. So be it. Anyway, the store didn't have beyer dynamics or sennheiser or even the Audio Technica. THey did have a pair of AKG 702s that I tried. I listened to some music on my iPhone using my beats just to get a baseline for what I am currently using. Then I plugged in the 702's and my first reaction was WOW. But not in a good way.


    The 702s were probably less than half the volume and they were only 62 ohm headphones, it was not nearly loud enough for what I like. But volume aside, I just don't think that they are any clearer or better than my beats. One thing they were better at is comfort. But I'm really not sure what all the fuss is about. Maybe a headphone amp would give it some oomph and change my perception?