Reamping - Exact Value for Level Difference (Input : Studio DI Output)

    I think it would be a nice feature if we knew how much is the difference in level between the original signal taken from the Guitar Input including the Clean Sense correction, and the Studio DI signal as source for the DI recording (SPDIF). Then for reamping we only had to adjust the DAW fader by this difference value and could reamp exactly with the same level as the original signal for the profile was. In that case it would not be necessary to estimate the reamp input signal strength by watching the Input LED – it’s never as save as just know the difference value. The difference value info could be easily shown in the Input menu. Of course it makes sense to have the Reamp Sense furthermore since it could be dialed in as opposite to the Clean Sense the DI track was recorded to have the same amount of distortion for reamping. In the end the Reamp Sense and the exact value of the level difference are the way to exact reamping.



    Studio DI signal level - (Guitar Input + Clean Sense Correction level) = Difference value


    Difference value = correction value on the DAW output for reamping



    I hope it’s clear what I mean since I’m not a native English speaker, but I can do it in German, wenn das Kemper-Team möchte ;)

    If you're after a much-more comprehensive answer, Todd, here's what @HELL-G has written here previously (I hope you don't mind, HELL-G; it saves you a bunch of typing, and might help others more-fully understand the ins and outs(!) of it:


    DI Output Leveling



    To adjust the DI output level enter the Input menu and select the “Clean Sens” parameter. You might have used this
    control already, as it is used to adapt the individual level of your guitar to the overall volume level of the Rigs and
    Profiles as described in The Basic Manual. Adjust the “Clean Sens” parameter to a level where clean sounds have
    the same perceived loudness as distorted sounds; in doing so, you have perfectly adjusted the dynamics of your
    instrument to the digital headroom of the Profiler. The output with “Git Studio” is perfectly leveled at the same time.



    While the leveling of the amp is a convenient feature, setting the correct level when recording the DI signal is
    absolutely critical, as it helps to keep the noise floor down. When you reamp this signal later with a high gain setting,
    the noise floor of the recording will be significantly amplified. The Input LED gives you a further hint for a correct
    leveling: the LED should flash yellow, when you hit the strings hard, but avoid deep orange or red color.



    Now, record the pure guitar. You can still monitor the processed (amped) guitar sound via the main outputs, that are
    unaffected by a possible latency of your recording device (digital audio workstation).



    Reamping Input Leveling



    For an optimum signal-to-noise ratio, levelling the reamping input is just as critical as leveling the pure instrument
    output. The leveling is done by the output level of the recording device; it cannot be adjusted in the Profiler. In
    particular, the S/PDIF signal can only be adjusted in the sending device, by definition.



    Play your guitar through the armed track, or play back a previously recorded track. Watch the Input LED while you
    adjust the output volume on the recording device. The LED should turn to yellow on hard string strokes, but not
    more. This is all you need to do, so long as the Rig you are reamping has no distorting amp or effect in the signal
    flow.



    If you reamp a distorting Rig, you might notice that the amount of distortion still differs from the original, despite
    following the above procedure. This is a natural consequence of the correct leveling of input and output: the leveling
    is made to achieve an optimum signal-to-noise ratio, but does not deal with the preservation of the original
    instrument level. This is what the parameter “Reamp Sens” is for; simply dial the desired amount of distortion with “
    Reamp Sens” - then you are set!



    For correct leveling and reproduction of a distorted Rig with a reamped instrument, two level settings must be
    performed: the absolute reamp level at the recording device and the amount of distortion by “Reamp Sens”. For
    clean sounding Rigs, only the absolute reamp level is necessary.



    Alternative Procedure for Input Levelling



    The original "Clean Sens" levelling from step two, and the final levelling of "Reamp Sens" have a kind of opposite
    relationship that can be used for easier and safer levelling, under two conditions:



    The Rig in question is a distorting one.



    You have memorized the original “Clean Sens” setting used to record the pure instrument



    First, set "Reamp Sens" to the opposite value of the original "Clean Sens" setting (e.g. 2.0 dB, when “Clean Sens”
    was -2.0 dB). Now, level the desired amount of distortion by adjusting the output volume on the recording device.
    Once this is done, you will have found the correct input level by default. There is no need to watch the input LED with
    this procedure.


    @Michael_dk, you might want to link this to the FAQ thread, matey. ;)

    I always remember the clean sense parameter when I record by naming the DI track with the value. So the track is called like "gtr rh DI 1 CS-6". What means "guitar rhythm DI with clean sense set to -6". I avoid to do too small steps for this and always use full value steps. So if the "perfect" value seems to be 5.4 I use 6.0 instead. It's easier to remember and gives me a little bit more room for failures. :) And than I use the reamp sense for the opposite value, it's so great that they included this feature later on!
    And I save different output settings for my guitars. One for playing live and one for recording as I have to set clean sense a little bit lower for recording. I have a Bare Knuckle Cold Sweat Pickup in my Tokai Les Paul which has a huge output (and this pickup is stated as a medium output) so the clean sense needs to be set to -8 to be safe on clipping.
    And... I don't care of reproducing the exact same sound when I do re-amping. If I want the exact same sound I keep the recorded one *g*.

    Hell_G, Monkey_Man, Navar - thanks for your answers!


    @Navar, yes, it's the same I do - I name the DI-tracks in Reaper including the Clean Sense value I've tracked them, for reamping = reamp sense the opposite value - but it's often not the same sound with the same profile and the Input LED hits often red. So I'm interested in the exact difference value to dial in the DAW DI track - but maybe I want to be to exact ;)
    But eventually, it's really something that's dependent to the Audio Interface and the Kemper cannot know the difference value. In that case, I know, there is no way to get this feature...


    Explained in a simple way I mean this:
    Track 1 = DI (for the sake of simplicity Clean Sense = 0) / Track 2 = profile A
    -> tracking these 2 tracks in Reaper
    -> reamping DI track 1 with profile A on track 3 -> should be the same sound like track 2 - but it doesn't work this way. So the Kemper changes the level of the DI-signal or the Audio Interface does it.


    Why do you take for granted, that there is such difference level?
    Just connect your interface as described in the manual.
    The Reamping Sens will do the opposite as the Clean Sens. Try it out.

    One of my guitars works perfectly with Clean Sense = 0.0 - Input led with hard strokes max. yellow. When I record the dry signal and play this track back to the KPA via reamping, the Input led lights red - so why is that? Which device changes the level? I mean, it's digital without converting (SPDIF) - 0 and 1 to the PC and back.
    I think, in the excerpt from the manual Monkey_man posted, there's what I mean: "...the leveling is made to achieve an optimum signal-to-noise ratio, but does not deal with the preservation of the original instrument level."
    --> I just would like to understand where this leveling is done - audio interface or KPA?

    Just connect the Spdif input with Spdif output to bypass your DAW, and check the level again.


    I am sure your DAW changes the level, as it as many level controls.
    It is not a unity gain device.
    But the Profiler is.

    I bypassed my DAW this way - cable from KPA Spdif out straight to Kemper Spdif in.


    I tested with hard hitting stuff and pinch harmonics:
    Input source = Front Input -> led = green, very seldom yellow
    Input source = Reamp Spdif -> led = especially with pinch harmonics orange and red


    Does the KPA have something like a Limiter, that's only active when Input source = Front Input?

    Quote from Michael_dk

    Interesting! Why is this, just out of curiosity?

    Yes, that leaves back at least one unknown variable ;-), because we never know, is the LED red because of the 6db higher reamping sensivity or because of a possible signal adaption of the Audio Interface / DAW.