Recently purchased used Kemper profiler

    The ACDC clip sounded good to me, the 5150 sounded like you had killed the gain completely, the distortion character was completely lost, like you had turned it down excessively, or turned down your volume knob.


    That doesn't even sound like the factory profile TAF 5150. Not sure what's going on, but when you're playing high gain, I would have expected it to be fizzy with too much gain, rather than such a little gain that it doesn't even sound like the profile it was from.


    Have you turned down distortion sense in the input section by accident?

    I've had a similar experience as you with the Kemper, it sounds amazing via my DAW (Cubase, Steinberg UR824 and Rokit 6 monitors), however the same patches I use to record sound distant and mushy when I use a real 4x12 cab in rehearsals. I understand what you are saying when you say its hard to put into words but to me it sounds like the sound is coming from just behind the speaker rather than from the front (if that makes sense??)


    I also had issues with nasty feedback when I upped the volume to the point where I was having to have 2 noise gates active.


    I can improve it a lot using the monitor out EQ but it always lacked the punch of a real valve amp, however I persisted and kept trying different patches (including sinmix, mbrit etc) to try and find one which sounded good via a 4x12 and eventually found one in the STL "the great wall" pack which instantly sounded great via a real cab. I could palm mute without it feeding back, volume roll off worked as I expected etc... all the things I'd been struggling with when using my recording profiles.


    The only problem I have is that I'm not so keen on the sound of this patch via my monitors which would be the tone that gets sent directly to the PA, it sounds a bit harsher than I would like.


    I was hoping to try it out at the weekend to see what it sounded like via a PA but sadly my Kemper died and had to be sent back for repair so I had to revert to my trusty JCM800.


    I will say that even though my recording patches don't sound so good via my 4x12 I have used them live in the past and they sounded brilliant onstage via the monitors and out front.. therefore it didn't really matter that the sound coming from my cab wasn't quite what I would have wanted.


    for now I have a patch I use for rehearsal (the STL patch) and I'm using a sinmix 5150 for home practice, recording and live.


    I'm in a similar position to you where I find the main out tone differs a lot to the monitor out tone via a 4x12 which is understandable as the profiled cab will be totally different to the cab I'm using.


    One thing I do want to do is get in a studio to profile my JCM800 with my own cab as its been ages since I used it and it sounded mega.. just hope I can capture that tone and use it on my Kemper going forward.. I'm also hoping that if its done correctly it should sound the same via both outputs, after all thats what its designed to do :)


    Good luck with your issue, I'm sure you will eventually get the sound you are after, I've had my powered Kemper for 16 Months and I'm sure I will keep searching for the one perfect profile :)

    Quote from nightlight

    The ACDC clip sounded good to me, the 5150 sounded like you had killed the gain completely, the distortion character was completely lost, like you had turned it down excessively, or turned down your volume knob.


    That doesn't even sound like the factory profile TAF 5150. Not sure what's going on, but when you're playing high gain, I would have expected it to be fizzy with too much gain, rather than such a little gain that it doesn't even sound like the profile it was from.


    Have you turned down distortion sense in the input section by accident?

    It was channel 2 of a 5150 by Michael britt. Not overly gainy to start with and I didn't touch a knob on the KPA other than killing the reverb. I do have other high gain profiles that get pretty fizzy.

    Quote from steveness

    I've had a similar experience as you with the Kemper, it sounds amazing via my DAW (Cubase, Steinberg UR824 and Rokit 6 monitors), however the same patches I use to record sound distant and mushy when I use a real 4x12 cab in rehearsals. I understand what you are saying when you say its hard to put into words but to me it sounds like the sound is coming from just behind the speaker rather than from the front (if that makes

    That's it exactly! I'm also a jcm 800 guy. Thanks for the advice.

    Quote from Ragnarok

    That's it exactly! I'm also a jcm 800 guy. Thanks for the advice.


    @Ragnarok and @steveness:


    It is completely expected that the KPA's recorded tone will sound different (sometimes slightly, sometimes dramatically) from the same profile being played through a physical guitar cabinet.


    Remember, the tone of a KPA studio profile, which you are using for making recordings, or are playing through powered FRFR monitors, is comprised of 3 elements:


    a) the characteristics of the reference tube amp used in the profile
    b) the characteristics of the type and position of the microphone used in the studio profiling process
    c) the characteristics of the reference guitar cabinet used in the profile


    Believe it or not, the reference guitar cabinet can contribute up to 70% of the over-all tone and dynamics of any given studio profile. Suffice it to say, the guitar cabinet plays a HUGE role, and often is more significant component of the over-all tone than the reference tube amp.


    It is to be completely expected that you will hear a difference between the tone of a KPA studio profile, played through monitors, versus the same exact profile (with Cabinet Off) being played through a physical guitar cabinet...because it is not the identical (reference) mic'd cabinet used in making the original profile. Unless, of course, it is a profile you personally made with your own equipment.


    Bottom line -- expect to make some stack EQ tweaks and adjustments, even perhaps requiring adding a stomp EQ (e.g. Studio EQ) when switching back and forth between your KPA with FRFR monitor (or headphones) and your KPA with a traditional guitar cabinet. I would recommend saving/storing two (2) separate Rigs...i.e. one for using with your FRFR monitor, and one for using your KPA with a physical guitar cabinet. All you have to do is save the Rig with a proper name/note. For example:


    Example Rig #1 name, for use with FRFR monitors -------------- !Steve - JCM 800_FRFR
    Eample Rig #2 name, for use with a 4x12 guitar cabine ----------- !Steve - JCM 800_4x12


    Cheers,
    John

    Edited 5 times, last by Tritium ().

    Like 2

    @Ragnarok


    Further to my previous post...


    If you are having difficulty in dialing in a particular tone, or are frustrated with how certain rig/profiles sound through any particular playback device, whether it be headphones, FRFR monitors, or a traditional guitar cabinet...then experiment with swapping out and auditioning different Cabinet profiles. The best way to do this is pick a particular rig/amp profile that interests you, then LOCK everything except the CABINET module. Then, you can scroll through all your rigs using the browse knob.


    The benefit of this exercise is that you can quickly audition different Cabinets, without changing the current amp, eq and effects, which remain fixed (because you have locked the Stomps, Amp, EQ, and Effects modules). If you haven't tried this, give it a whirl. I think you will be find some fantastic combinations...and it just may solve your issue.


    Just remember that whenever you land upon a particular Amp + Cabinet combination that you are really digging, you will want to save/store it under a new name, as a new Rig/profile. Then, when you are finished, remember to UNLOCK all the modules you previously locked for this experiment.


    Finally, here is a copy of a post/reply I wrote in response to another thread, which you also might find of help:


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------


    When connecting your KPA to a traditional guitar cabinet, it is a "general" rule that you should turn off the Cab Module (cabinet simulation). However, every once in awhile you may find that you will prefer to have a particular Cabinet profile/sim enabled, when playing through a particular guitar cabinet.


    When I first purchased my KPA PowerRack, I hadn't yet received my XiTone passive 1x12 FRFR monitor. So, I initially connected it and tested it with the following cabinets I own:


    A) Marshall Vintage Modern 4x12 cabinet
    B) Vox 2x12 cabinet
    C) Tech 21 PE-60 Power Engine


    Now, in the case "A" and "B", I definitely had the KPA's Cab Off. However, with "C", the Tech 21 PE60, I found that I preferred having a KPA Cab profile enabled. Note -- As the PE60 is a powered speaker, I was connecting my powered KPA using the Monitor Output jack, with the built-in poweramp turned off. In any case, I found that the speaker in the PE60 (Celestion Seventy/80) sounded best with (believe it or not) a Cab Profile from TAF, based on a 1x15" Ampeg SVT 450 Bass Cabinet.


    So, there are no hard and fast rules. At the end of the day, you will find out what works best with your unique set-up. Again, 99% of the time you probably will want to have your KPA's Cab Module off (when connecting to a traditional guitar cabinet). But every once in awhile, you may find a sweet combination of a KPA amp profile and your connected cabinet which benefits from having a particular Cab enabled.


    Cheers,
    John

    Thanks John,
    I really appreciate all your guidance. I have auditioned every cab that I have available that came with KPA. I have not yet loaded any new ones though. While I hear a dramatic difference between them (enough to hear what your talking about as far as how much the cab is responsible for overall tone), there is a characteristic across the board with every cab and every profile that I cannot seem to tweak out. Direct profiles included. With every different cab/monitor solutions I've tried. This new cab that just arrived via FedEx was advertised as being made with KPA powerhead in mind. Same issue...I would expect a tonal difference running through a traditional guitar cabinet, from the reasons you mentioned above. And while I'll be the first to admit I'm a little slower than most in this department and am probably overlooking something, it seems to be almost a spacial thing. Like all my profiles were made with a barrier between recorded amp and mic. While I know that's not the case, that's what my ears are hearing. Some of them do sound better than others, but it's always there to some extent. Unless I'm using headphones with space turned up or recording and playing it back. Thanks again for all the time you've spent helping. I'll keep on tweaking dials.

    Also, as of about 3 weeks or so ago I've pretty well given up on the 4x12s. All of my live monitoring lately has been either a powered line 6 p.a. out of the Monitor Output, or the mission engineering cab out of the main powered output. Same issues with flat response speakers.

    Quote from Tritium

    Believe it or not, the reference guitar cabinet can contribute up to 70% of the over-all tone and dynamics of any given studio profile. Suffice it to say, the guitar cabinet plays a HUGE role, and often is more significant component of the over-all tone than the reference tube amp.

    So true. And from that 70% the actual placement in the room is 50%. The "truest" sound of that cabinet one will get on a huge open air stage (that is more or less how the frequency plot of speakers is taken anyway- aka free field = 100% non refelective room). The most room colouring you will get with the cab in the corner of small rehearsal room.

    Ne travaillez jamais.

    Like 2

    Thanks Tritium for all the pointers. One thing I would say is that I don't use the cab sim on the kemper for the monitor out to my 4x12 (mesa cab) so changing cabinets would only affect the tone I'm sending out to the desk/PA.


    Also worth noting that if you edit anything other than the monitor out EQ then you will be changing the tone of the main out to the PA or DAW depending on what you are routing to which might not be what you want to achieve (unless there is something I'm missing here ?).


    My initial frustrations were exactly this, I would audition profiles using my Rokit 6's (I know this isn't ideal) then when I got to rehearsals and tried the same patch via my 4x12 the profile would sound pretty crappy when up against the real amps used by the other members of the band. Don't get me wrong, it still sounded good but it didn't sound like a dedicated valve amp and cab combo.


    However in a live situation the main out sounded as per my Rokits, so sound out front was great, my monitor mix would sound great but my backline tone would be a bit naff.



    It's finding that balance between a good rehearsal sound and a good direct to PA sound hence why I use 2 different profiles now.


    My next step is to profile my own rig, afterall thats the tone I'm really happy with. I hope to profile the amp and cab separately so that when I use my Kemper with the same 4x12 with cabs off it "should" sound the same as using my JCM.. well thats the theory :)


    EDIT - just reread your 1st post and realise you pretty much said the same thing anyway :)

    Quote from steveness

    My next step is to profile my own rig, afterall thats the tone I'm really happy with. I hope to profile the amp and cab separately so that when I use my Kemper with the same 4x12 with cabs off it "should" sound the same as using my JCM.. well thats the theory

    Oh, it will sound the same, mate. No worries there; just ask Chappers.

    Quote from ColdFrixion

    Have you tried the solution found in this thread?

    Updated to 5.0.3. Still same old same old, other than a few new delays and stuff. Really, with my live sound nothing has changed since the day I brought it home. Just wondering if all you guys live sound is pretty close to your recorded sound? I know the room your in plays a part, and the distance you are from your moniter and all that. But are you hearing the same ballpark sound from your moniter playing live as you hear when recording direct and listening to it? I'm going to post a few recordings when I get some time. It will be the same riff, and same profile. 1 will be recorded direct, the 2nd miced in front of my moniter. Hopefully will show you what I'm getting at.

    Issue solved. After opening a support ticket and doing a factory reset directly after installing updated firmware, I am happy to report that my KPA powerhead is sounding great. All of a sudden everything is 3 dimensional, full sounding, and up front. Just like the recordings I've been listening to. I've downloaded some great profiles from the rig exchange and am back to having fun playing guitar, rather than banging my head against a wall. Not sure what was different this time (I've tried resetting 6-7 times before) other than doing the reset again immediately after upgrading. Was starting to lose it a little there thinking I made a mistake buying a faulty unit. Glad to learn I was wrong. Thanks to all of those who gave of their time and wisdom. And thank you to the kemper support team who were quick to respond to my email. Merry Christmas and happy rockin'...

    Quote from Ragnarok

    Issue solved. After opening a support ticket and doing a factory reset directly after installing updated firmware, I am happy to report that my KPA powerhead is sounding great. All of a sudden everything is 3 dimensional, full sounding, and up front. Just like the recordings I've been listening to. I've downloaded some great profiles from the rig exchange and am back to having fun playing guitar, rather than banging my head against a wall. Not sure what was different this time (I've tried resetting 6-7 times before) other than doing the reset again immediately after upgrading. Was starting to lose it a little there thinking I made a mistake buying a faulty unit. Glad to learn I was wrong. Thanks to all of those who gave of their time and wisdom. And thank you to the kemper support team who were quick to respond to my email. Merry Christmas and happy rockin'...

    Sounds like a nice Christmas present for you, tonal bliss from the KPA :D