Rig Manager on Linux

  • I'm using Rig Manager in a Windows 10 VM using VirtualBox and it works perfectly. The only thing you need to understand is the USB setup to ensure the VM will correctly see when the Kemper is connected.

    1. Install VirtualBox if not already done for your distro.
    2. Download latest MS Win 10 iso.
    3. Install Windows 10 as a guest OS. If you have courage enough to dig into the config mess, stop all stupid useless services...
    4. Install VirtualBox Guest Additions (You can do that from within VirtualBox). It will ease interaction with your host (clipboard, mouse and keyboard capture, desktop dynamic resize...).
    5. Download and install Oracle VirtualBox Extension Pack. It will enable usage of USB 2 and 3 from within VMs. This is basically the crucial step!
    6. Download and install Rig Manager in the VM.

    Once everything is setup starting and stopping the VM takes seconds. Everything works, communication with the Kemper, rig preview, connection to Rig Exchange...


    Of course I nevertheless vote for a native version of Rig Manager for Linux.


    VMs are a pain in the ass in terms of resource consumption, even if for the daily work it does the job and in our case it saves the day. I am using Linux both personally and professionally for years, and there is nothing running a proprietary OS on any of my machines for at least the last 20 years. Running a software as simple a Rig Manager in a MS VM (after all it's only a librarian type software... no tricky video access or big or strange architecture...) can only be a workaround. I have been able to kick out my life those viruses that are Windows or MacOS and voilà, it sneakily comes back for the stupid reason of a proprietary USB driver... This is highly unsatisfactory.


    Mr Kemper, please open source Rig Manager or at least the USB driver. They are freebies and should not disclose any of your IP regarding the Kemper itself. Do it now !

  • I have been able to kick out my life those viruses that are Windows or MacOS and voilà...

    Apart from the "infamous" Flash virus, which required that you grant it permissions and run in order to infiltrate your system, and that Apple quickly patched, I know of nobody who's experienced a Virus on Mac. Norton continued to insist that you should run its malware guards, but I know of nobody who's done so.


    Back in the last days of OS9 the virus count had grown to its peak, which AFAICR was a grand total of 31; Windows had several hundreds of thousands at that time. When OSX dropped, the number fell to zero and has for all but very few users (I've met none) remained there.


    Just sayin'. If avoiding viruses is a primary reason why you're on Linux, you ought to consider OSX IMHO, but of course it's up to you, mate.

  • I stopped using windows ages ago because it was full of viruses and I was formatting my pc every 2 months. I moved to apple which was efficient and stable. Now apple computers are loaded with useless features that disturbes cpus and require yearly updates which are ridiculous scheduled obsolescence. Why would I need itunes to operate a phone? Why would I need this osx version to run that itunes? Oh but my computer is 5 years old and we don’t do updates any more... pure theft

    Now I’m on Linux. The only drawback is that I don’t really understand much but hey, this is better than a painful *ss

  • Apart from the "infamous" Flash virus, which required that you grant it permissions and run in order to infiltrate your system, and that Apple quickly patched, I know of nobody who's experienced a Virus on Mac. Norton continued to insist that you should run its malware guards, but I know of nobody who's done so.

    Ah ah, my idea was not to resume the OS war, because I don't care anymore about that for quite a while now... People use their favorite OS , be it "insert coin to continue" (MacOS), "believe me we are professional" (Windows) or "take my data and run" (ChromeOS). That's their choice... My primary goal in running Linux for more than 20 years on all my machines personal or pro is to know what they are doing, ensure stability, privacy and fight against scheduled obsolescence. I understand this is not a priority for most people...

    So, I'm very sorry you didn't get the joke... To clarify, my sentence meant "Windows and MacOS ARE the viruses", no need to have any third party virus, they come fully loaded;-).

  • LOL Too funny, mate! :D I hear you on all fronts, brother.


    That said, I'm super-grateful that at least I've been able to continue running my 2012 cheese grater as my main machine. I'll need a new graphics card if I want to move to Mojave, but this is the first time I would have been required to make a hardware change to accommodate a new OS, and it's just a cheap graphics card, not a new computer.


    The High Sierra installer flashed 2009-2012 machines (pre nMP trash cans) to 5.1 status if they weren't there already, so even folks on 9 year old computers can still officially run High Sierra, which ain't bad when you think about it. There's actually a freeware patch that'll take 2008 models to 5.1 status, from which point Mojave could be installed along with a new graphics card, so we're looking at 10 years, albeit "unofficial". Mojave will be current for at least a year, bringing the grand total to 11 years. Regardless of OS flavour, most folks these days would run into CPU limitations long before this point, which I think you'd agree renders the forced-obsolescence argument moot, at least thus far. Laptops are a less-inspiring story.


    As I said 'though, I totally hear you, man. More power to you that you've had the balls to have done what you've done. :thumbup:

  • +1 For what it's worth on the Linux development. I've been on (and supporting professionally) Windows since Windows 2.1 in the late 80's. Windows 8 (and to a lesser extent 10) has forced me to stay on Win7 until now - but I was just about to get my first Mac a few months ago when I thought I'd give Linux a go... wow, I haven't looked back. And definitely no pricey Apple gear needed now.

    Rig Manager (and I hope the upcoming Editor) may work in a Virtual Box but its an inconvenience, huge security/privacy risk and added cost (I'll need to buy a Win10 license...)

    I yearn for the day Windows is not seen as the "default" as if nothing else exists...

  • In theory, shouldn‘t be too much of work. I expect them to have enough foresight to have used cross-platform frameworks from the start. Linux should be „easier“ to support than MacOS, they may even use cross-platform compilers.

  • I suppose this will not happen. First, way too few people using Linux. And then: RigManager is not built with a GUI framework like QT which would have made it very easy to run RigManager under Windows and Linux and... This was a design decision and I think Kemper will not revert it.


    I installed Windows using virtual "Boxes" under Mint Linux. Enabling and forwarding USB allows to run RigManager. The problem I found: it is very slow. So, from time to time I still boot Windows..

  • I suppose this will not happen. First, way too few people using Linux. And then: RigManager is not built with a GUI framework like QT which would have made it very easy to run RigManager under Windows and Linux and... This was a design decision and I think Kemper will not revert it.

    I don't think the application has been completely rewritten for macos vs windows so there is probably some form of abstraction layer used. Do you know which, and also positively that it isn't available for linux?


    Not too many linux desktop-users yet, but the number is slowly rising. The number of people using devices running a linux-kernel OTOH is huge. Everything from being embedded in gadgets of all sorts to full-blown terminal units with Android (smartphones, tablets, smart-tv etc) . Neither windows nor macos are proper realtime-operating systems which is a huge advantage for manipulating audio and video information so I would not be surprised to see more applications moving in that direction. With macos or windows you really have to work hard to strip the systems down to an absolute minimum to turn it into a reasonably stable and responsive multimedia workstation. Meanwhile there are versions of linux with full realtime capabilities. Linux have come a long way since its conception in the early 90s. In the early years commercial entities wouldn't touch it with a stick. Today there's wide speculation among tech journalists that even MS may drop their proprietary OS-kernel for linux at some point.

  • I don't think the application has been completely rewritten for macos vs windows so there is probably some form of abstraction layer used. Do you know which, and also positively that it isn't available for linux?


    Software Engineer here - I objdumped the macos binary and it does look like it's written in Cocao - so it's entirely possible that the UI is OS specific. I also know that Kemper was at one point hiring C++ developers, the postings did not directly specify a framework (and as a hiring manager, that's what I'd be focusing on if we were framework heavy) . If *I* were building this tool, the code that communicates with the kemper would be os specific, the data abstraction layer would be universal, and the UI would likely be a blend.

    This DOES make it more difficult to port to other platforms, but it also provides the most stable code.

    Not too many linux desktop-users yet, but the number is slowly rising. The number of people using devices running a linux-kernel OTOH is huge. Everything from being embedded in gadgets of all sorts to full-blown terminal units with Android (smartphones, tablets, smart-tv etc) .

    Yes, but the kernel isn't really in play here, is it? They might need to write new USB drivers, but that's only part of it. The rest is UI specific- so if you're talking about Android... well the Android UI (which is done in Java) - is very different from the OSX or Win32/64 ui. It's very difficult to go from desktop to mobile OS. It's a clean, ground up rewrite.

    Neither windows nor macos are proper realtime-operating systems which is a huge advantage for manipulating audio and video information so I would not be surprised to see more applications moving in that direction. With macos or windows you really have to work hard to strip the systems down to an absolute minimum to turn it into a reasonably stable and responsive multimedia workstation. Meanwhile there are versions of linux with full realtime capabilities. Linux have come a long way since its conception in the early 90s.


    Linux, in general, is ALSO not a RTOS. Yes, there are kernel versions that are more realtime than the master branch, but it's in exactly the same boat as MacOS and Windows. Further, the optimizations required for both of those platforms are well known (on a mac it's even easier now). So Linux doesn't really have a leg up on Apple of Microsoft here at all. If it did, I'd be running ProTools on Linux.

    Yes, Linux HAS come a long way since the early 90s - but so has both MacOS and Windows. In context, in the early 90s, both of those Operating systems were (a) not yet fully 32 bit and (b) did not support proper memory management, preemptive multitasking or driver isolation. Remember when a program would crash and you'd get a sad mac? BSOD?

    All three platforms have made significant changes in the last 30 years.


    Honestly, I don't think there's the support for the platform needed to warrant a port of RM to Linux. It would be cool, yeah, but given that most users of the Kemper are NOT CompSci majors, it doesn't make sense to target a 0.1% platform.

    I'd rather see more improvements to RM for all users.


    KPA Unpowered Rack, Kemper Remote, X32 Rack, uTrack 24, MTP AV,BC Rich Mockingbird(s)


  • Software Engineer here - I objdumped the macos binary and it does look like it's written in Cocao -

    Yes, but the kernel isn't really in play here, is it? They might need to write new USB drivers, but that's only part of it. The rest is UI specific- so if you're talking about Android... well the Android UI (which is done in Java) - is very different from the OSX or Win32/64 ui. It's very difficult to go from desktop to mobile OS. It's a clean, ground up rewrite.


    Linux, in general, is ALSO not a RTOS. Yes, there are kernel versions that are more realtime than the master branch, but it's in exactly the same boat as MacOS and Windows. Further, the optimizations required for both of those platforms are well known (on a mac it's even easier now). So Linux doesn't really have a leg up on Apple of Microsoft here at all. If it did, I'd be running ProTools on Linux.


    Honestly, I don't think there's the support for the platform needed to warrant a port of RM to Linux. It would be cool, yeah, but given that most users of the Kemper are NOT CompSci majors, it doesn't make sense to target a 0.1% platform.

    I'd rather see more improvements to RM for all users.

    Looking at binaries you wold find traces of UI-libraries from the local OS everywhere. That doesn't rule out the use of higher level abstraction layers.


    There are UI-abstraction-tools that even include the most common mobile platforms, although their efficiency may be questionable.


    Real-time is not an issue for RM itself, but the reality is that a lot of people use it in a home/studio-environment as an element in a more complex media-creation platform.


    The standard linux-kernel is not real-time-compliant, but with the RT-patches it is 100% compliant with acknowledged RT-standards. Even a standard kernel compiled with low-latency-options is a lot better than most of the competition. There are of course more than decent alternatives to linux, but those do not include Apple or Microsoft. Systems that makes it very hard for users to even prevent things like automated maintenance-procedures from interfering with their workflow are far from optimal as a media-platform.


    I completely agree that usability must be first priority, which of course makes the most common operating systems first priority too. My point is only that systems could be improved. In the current environment where media is mostly paid by advertising nobody really represent the consumer anymore. If people knew more about alternatives they may choose differently, which in turn could push the major players to produce better solutions. Given the resources at their disposal, I find it almost ridiculous that Apple and MS have not yet come up with better solutions.

  • Rig Manager for Linux would be great!


    Please release the sources of your Kemper USB driver and I guarantee you magic will happen. The "oh my god our IP" is just a reflex and from my current investigation neighter the Rig Manager Software nor the Kemper Device driver is rocket science (and I am still not sure why there is the win8 requirement - my bad bet is that this is not a requirement of the USB device driver).


    You may know that alot of the linux kernel device drivers (were initialy)/are reverse engineered Windows/* device drivers - this just takes alot more time and testing effort for people/devs that are giving you the "Kemper Rig Manager now supports Linux" feature for free.

  • Rig Manager for Linux would be great!


    Please release the sources of your Kemper USB driver and I guarantee you magic will happen. The "oh my god our IP" is just a reflex and from my current investigation neighter the Rig Manager Software nor the Kemper Device driver is rocket science (and I am still not sure why there is the win8 requirement - my bad bet is that this is not a requirement of the USB device driver).


    You may know that alot of the linux kernel device drivers (were initialy)/are reverse engineered Windows/* device drivers - this just takes alot more time and testing effort for people/devs that are giving you the "Kemper Rig Manager now supports Linux" feature for free.

    I think it's more complex than that. Even if they wanted to release the source, I don't they think they could because of the license. I think I remember reading somewhere that the USB driver is made by a third party. Don't get me wrong though, I'm a Linux user and I would REALLY like a Linux native solution for rig management.

  • I think of Linux as the future, while WinBlows and Crapple are the past... and I really don't think a version of RM that runs under Wine is asking all that much.


    Linux users are growing every year and will continue to do so... eventually it will be done, so why not now? :)

  • I think of Linux as the future, while WinBlows and Crapple are the past... and I really don't think a version of RM that runs under Wine is asking all that much.

    if it works under Wine, that's fine for everybody I guess. Nevertheless we have no plans to dedicate development resources to all this. For the vast majority of our users, Linux is not an option. I hope this answers the OP question.

  • G String

    Closed the thread.
  • ...while WinBlows and Crapple are the past...

    Why the (clearly) derogatory labels? I've never understood this. You don't like Windows or MacOS.....I've never heard that one before. :rolleyes:


    Comments like yours go a long way towards validating the perception that Linux users have elitist attitudes.

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • Why the (clearly) derogatory labels? I've never understood this. You don't like Windows or MacOS.....I've never heard that one before. :rolleyes:


    Comments like yours go a long way towards validating the perception that Linux users have elitist attitudes.

    I've been a computer tech for 40 years... the labels are well deserved. Comments like mine go a long way toward validating the perception that Windows Blows and Apple is Crap... if you understood anything at all about tech you would agree... both are more interested in their bloatware than creating a worthy product and its been that way for ages. Apple (the company) are the elitists and Microsoft isn't far behind. You want to worship Big Tech, do it on your own dime.