• Hi Guys,


    Ive been playing my kemper for 1 year through studio monitors and i´m not too happy with the Sound. I also tried different Monitors now but they all sound about the same.


    It´s simply not powerful enough and gives me 0 "real amp feel". So I want to get a PA and play through a cab. One option would be to sell my unpowered Kemper and get a powered one.


    Another option would be to get a poweramp designed for Kemper by "kpa solutions" or "Ritter". The third option would be to get an external poweramp from thoman. And the last option would be to sell the Kemper and get a Dark Terror.


    What do you guys think? Anybody has a PA that works good with Kemper?


    Thanks for any help :)

  • Greetings. You might be one of those guys who prefers the Kemper through the power amp of a standard guitar amplifier. There was a recent thread here where someone really liked the Kemper through a cheap Boss Katana 100. Turn cabs off on the Kemper, and run through the effects return of the amp, bypassing the modeling and preamp of it. You could try this with a variety of amps at a local guitar shop. Good luck!

    Go for it now. The future is promised to no one. - Wayne Dyer

  • Thx. My local Guitar Shop didnt even have a head with effect loop. Only an Orange Dual Terror. I simply went to Clean Channel and put the Kemper in the Front Input and to me it already sounded alot better than through monitors.+
    Next week he´ll have a Jim Root Terror so I can test your suggestion. I would also be interested in buying the Camplifier http://shop.ritteramps.de/en/c…er/12-camplifier-290.html it would be cheaper than getting a head with fx loop

  • Have you tried the Mission Engineering Gemini? I have he Gemini 2 and it's unbelievable. If you have not, give them a look. Check around here for the reviews. They are a bit expensive but IMO it was so worth it.

  • you rang?


    to the OP, I've tried any number of ways to get the Kemper to sound like a real amp in the room and for every solution there are pluses and minuses.


    -I haven't found a pair of consumer headphones I like at all. I use Ultimate Ears UE7 fitted ear molds to tweak to most of the time but they're not cost effective in the slightest.


    -Running through a tube power amp into a guitar cab with the cab sims off on the KPA monitor out gives a nice tube feel but you sacrifice clarity and part of the "perfection" that the KPA can give you. I often use this in conjunction with iem's so that I hear the clarity from the left ear monitor and have the feel and push of the tube amp in my open ear. It's not ideal and it still requires a nice bit of volume and/or a pa or mixer.


    -Powered KPA through a guitar cab is ok, but sometimes requires finding the right profiles that work with that setup and even though the KPA's power amp is plenty loud for most any occasion, it doesn't have the power slope of a tube amp so there's a perceived lack of punch, at least to me. It's pretty much the difference in a digital/class d/solid state power amp vs. tube amp. There is always some sacrifice in clarity using a guitar cab with the cab sims off as well, but is super usable in band environments.


    -Powered p.a. cabs are used by a lot of guys. I've tried a few and they sound okay but don't really "feel" like a guitar cab. For most people, they are probably a good option because you can get Alto, Mackie, QSC, EV, JBL wedges that are made of plastic for pretty cheap and as long as you don't need a ton of bottom end, you can get them to sound pretty good. I even use a tiny Mackie hot spot monitor for some acoustic shows and for practicing in hotel rooms. It doesn't get very loud or have any low end to speak of but the mids and highs are surprisingly pleasant. Little Mackie Demo


    -FRFR powered cabs provide some of the best clarity and capture the full range of tone that the KPA puts out. They all sound different to me and each one I've tried sounds good. The Atomic CLR is nice but it's a wedge shape so if you're not used to a horn aiming up at your head it can be a little harsh. You can put it on its side and a lot of people do that. It's a bit directional and the closed back design is tight for those who are used to 412 closed back cabs. I haven't tried the Mission or the Matrix so I can't speak for those. The Friedman ASM is nice looking but really heavy and it is a wedge so it's pointing up at you. It sounds really good when using the XLR outs of the KPA but if you are wanting to use the 1/4" monitor out, you lose a lot of volume and tone because it only has XLR ins and you have to convert from unbalanced to balanced and the impedance match is tricky. I'm not sure why they didn't put combi jacks on it.


    -Tech 21 Power Engine is a little, near-FRFR open backed combo that has some basic eq controls (Bass, Middle, Treble) and can sound good with a little tweaking. The power amp is loud and has a more amp-like feel than many of the p.a. speakers or wedges and it's relatively inexpensive. It sometimes takes a little while to find the right profiles to use with it because it can be a little honky in the mids. I have a buddy that uses one a lot at home and on gigs. He runs his with the cab sims off and eq's the monitor out to get it where he likes it. I usually run mine with the cab sims on and just tweak the eq on the KPA monitor out and Power Engine til it sounds good. It's not a wedge so you can put your KPA on top too, which is a bonus.


    -I recently worked with Mick at XiTone cabs to develop something that I could use to tweak to and for local gigs, etc. I wanted the open back feel of the Tech 21 but with a flatter response that I wouldn't have to eq around and with a nicer bottom end without the honk. He uses a Matrix (mosfet maybe?) power amp and we tried a bunch of different speaker combinations as well as a few cabinet designs til we landed on something that I thought sounded as good as what I hear in my UE7s. It's an oversized 112 with a single-point-source high end driver (both Celestion) and it has a few different modes (FRFR, slight mid boost to simulate the slight mid hump in my UE7s, horn disengaged FRFR, and raw 12") so you can run it with the cab sims on (modes 1-3) or off (mode 4). It's in the price range of the CLR but I think it feels the most like a guitar amp and not a p.a. speaker. I like the spatial quality the open back gives it and if you are more accustomed to closed back 412s Mick can make a closed back version. We've also talked about making a floor wedge model that incorporates an open port as well. You can read more about it here: XiTone M Britt Model


    I apologize for being so long-winded but clearly it's something that I've struggled with for quite some time and have given it a lot of thought. I think any solution can be made to sound good, so a lot of it depends on your application, how loud you need to be, who all needs to hear it, how much you have to spend, etc. The good thing about the KPA is that it gives you options with the monitor out eq, the number of possible profiles you can use, numerous outputs, optional power amps. I agree than studio monitors are not usually the best way to monitor it. I only use them when I'm actually recording.

  • sweet cab! I'm getting great service out of, believe it or not, the Seismic 15" coaxial powered monitor. I usually run it flat, but it does have a bass and treble 2 band eq on it, too.

    I am a Profile Whore... Sometimes a Recovering Profile Whore...
    but mostly a Complete and Utter Profile Whore... I want them all... aCk!!! 8|:love:

  • Ive been playing my kemper for 1 year through studio monitors and i´m not too happy with the Sound. I also tried different Monitors now but they all sound about the same.

    Thats a good sign for the monitors you tested! ;)


    Maybe its like Zaplledan said. What you hear in FRFR is the amp through a mic. The dream of the sound engineer. And more or less exactly what your audience will hear. But you want to hear the real amp - without mic.


    I am between both worlds. I by all means want FRFR to judge a sound. But: I also want huge, breath-taking and oomphy sound pressure. Once in a while. My compromise is JBL EON. 2 times 10 inch down to 160 Hz plus the 18 inch EON subwoofer. Not very portable, though. :| But can be *really* brutal and still clean. :P

    Ne travaillez jamais.

  • I certainly don't have all the answers, but here's what I can summarize based on my research/experience.


    I haven't tried out the PA speakers yet, though I plan to in order to compare. On this forum the consensus seems to be that the Alto TS212 and Yamaha DXR10's are the best bang for the buck. They also get high marks for ease and portability. The EV ZLX-12P I've read here are heavy on the low end, so I nixed those.


    Admittedly, I have a vanity about wanting to have a "cab" behind me, so I opted for the Mission Gemini 1-P. This is the unpowered version of their active Gemini 1. It looks and sounds incredible with my powered KPA. It's similar to Michael Britt's XiTone in that it's an oversized 1x12. The passive has no extra functions, but the active Gemini 1 can go between traditional guitar cab to full FRFR, somewhat like the Michael Britt XiTone. The main down with the Gemini's and MBritt XiTone? They're not light. If moving around isn't an option, they also have 2x12 active and passive Gemini's that have gotten some good reviews. What's really nice about the Mission Engineering stuff is that the tweeter is in the middle of the woofer. With PA speakers and other FRFR options you have the woofer on one side and the tweeter on the other. I like the equal dispersion in the Gemini's and the fact that you can mic them somewhat similar to a guitar cab. With most other FRFR solutions you get frequency separation up close.


    I also plan on trying out the Matrix stuff because they are insanely light and use AB power. I owned a pair of NL12's, which are passive, and I really regret selling them. They aren't full FRFR, but are traditional guitar cabs with an extended frequency response so you can use them easily with or without cab sims. The Mission Engineering KM-212P is the same but in a smaller 4x12 style that was designed specifically for the powered KPA. I'm in the market for an FR12, which I'm not sure can be beat for size/weight/power.


    At this juncture I haven't tried the Atomic CLR's but they get really high reviews here. They are heavier, but Kemper and Fractal users alike find them to strike the perfect balance. I was a little dissuaded by the price point, but I still keep a look out for used ones that I'd love to snatch for the right price.


    Another company that caught my attention but seems to fly a little under the radar is Accugroove. Most of their FRFR cabs are passive but have the right traditional guitar look and keep the weight down. Price is pretty high, though.


    There are other options like the Friedman ASM-12, but I was primarily put off by the weight. That and some comparison videos online showed it being a bit darker and muddier for my taste.


    You mentioned KPA Solutions like the Camplifier. The Camper kit intrigued me for a moment as an FRFR with guitar cab appearance. Super light, too.


    To summarize for me:


    Small portable PA's: Alto TS212, Yamaha DXR10


    Powered FRFR cabs: Matrix FR12, Atomic CLR, Mission Gemini 1, XiTone Michael Britt


    Passive FRFR cabs with a powered KPA: Mission Gemini 1-P, Accugroove Latte or Venti


    Traditional guitar cab made for modelers: Matrix NL12, Mission KM-212P

  • Would love to hear samples of unedited stock profiles to compare, especially with anything else you might have. I plan on purchasing a number of FRFR solutions and making a comparison video myself.

  • Regardless of which speaker monitor I use I find that adding a second takes the stage sound to the next level. It doesn't even have to be stereo. Just two speakers being fed the same signal, one in front of me and one 45-90degrees to one side. In this setup I use dual-channel wedges (Dynacord) and take a monitor mix from FOH (without guitar) into the front monitor and blend it with my guitar straight from the KPA. The second monitor is guitar only. With stereo and ambient effects from the KPA it sounds huge.

  • Dang, someone sticky this lol

  • Oh heck... I just went ahead and ordered an open/closed back convertible version of the Michael Britt Xitone cab...
    Gotta love the tool-less removable back port lid! Looking forward to getting my greedy paws on it in 3 or 4 weeks!


    Whoop!

    I am a Profile Whore... Sometimes a Recovering Profile Whore...
    but mostly a Complete and Utter Profile Whore... I want them all... aCk!!! 8|:love:

  • Thank you so much Michael! I've come to the same conclusion on some of the configurations you mention, and trust that I would feel the same way with the ones I haven't tried.


    I'll have to give your design a try. It looks to be exactly what I'm looking for.