USB Audio & Reamping

  • One for Mr. Kemper - Will this ever be possible via firmware update, or would it require a change in hardware? TI's a pretty important feature for many. ;)

  • Reamping is already possible!
    Record your pure guitar by the Direct Output. It carries an analog copy of the Instrument Input, no ADDA conversion involved.
    You can playback the guitar recording directly back into the Instrument Input or SPDIF in. Make the correct levels by the parameter Clean Sense and Distortion Sense in the Input menue.


    We are planning an even more convenient way for reamping in a future software update.


    USB audio is not planned, as this would require the KPA to be the sole audio interface for your DAW.
    Remember: You can only use one audio interface on your daw without hassle.
    And we assume that you all own a more appropriate audio interface. That is why we recomment to use SPDIF in combination with an audio interface.


    Christoph Kemper

  • Hi Christoph, thank-you very much for answering. OK, good to know that you can re-amp!


    With regards SPDIF will you be updating this to allow other bitrates than 44.1k in the future?


    I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with your analysis on USB audio. I hope you don't mind if I outline why I think this is so :


    Firstly, even though this is clearly targeted at studios I'm willing to bet that the majority of users will be guitarists that don't already have expensive convertors. So for them it being the sole interface is bang on perfect, and a great selling point.


    Secondly, if you do have an audio interface the Kemper is looking to take up quite a few inputs and outputs on it which you may not want to spare if you want to use it for more than pre or outboard, for instance to re-amp or profile. I'm just a normal guitarist though I do have a very nice interface with the Apogee Ensemble, and I'm wondering how I'm going to route the Kemper in there together with everything else already taking up all the other slots. Which leads to...


    Third consideration is that it's much quicker to change the audio driver option from within your DAW or even computer control panel (which allows separate IO options) than to plug/unplug physical cables or even reroute using your standard interface software (Maestro in my case). In fact I use the USB directly on my Pod HD currently for this very reason.


    Fourth factor is that it's just convenient. Sometimes I just want to quickly jot down an idea and in those instances I will often just use the USB IO on the Pod (and maybe headphones). It's also convenient for me of course because I spend a lot of my time using Bootcamp coding away in visual studio in Windows and suddenly I have an idea and it becomes too much hassle to reboot just to knock the idea out.


    I do think it would be worth your while and I know of several guitarists who would dive right in but for this holding them back. Their argument is simply that the competition has it, of course the Virus TI had it (was it so very bad there?) and it's just one of those standard sort of "expected" features now. It's disheartening to see people you've pointed in the direction get all excited and then when they ask that you get the puppy dog face and mumbling.


    So I'd very much like to request that it be added or at least reconsidered (even though I know it's a huge pain to write or license drivers, audio IO etc). I think it would help round out what looks to be a fantastic product and give it wider appeal, even though it's expensive it's the sort of thing that's so desirable that people who otherwise wouldn't be able to comfortably afford it are saving up for.


    I really hope you don't mind me saying this and that what I've said hasn't come across too strongly or in any way offensively (it's just eagerness), I just wanted to outline a few good arguments for. :)

  • I agree with Per as well, BUT I find it refreshing that Mr. Kemper has answered this question so I can make decisions going forward on an external audio/midi interface for recording. Thanks!

  • Christoph, could you consider this ? :


    As the signal from S/PDIF is stereo and we often prefer recording dry tracks (so, no stereo effects -> mono track), perhaps it would be possible to let the processed signal (amp + cab) on the left channel of the S/PDIF and the dry signal of the guitar on the right channel. So, no conversion at all. It could be an option : stereo effects or dry guitar.

  • Christoph, could you consider this ? :


    As the signal from S/PDIF is stereo and we often prefer recording dry tracks (so, no stereo effects -> mono track), perhaps it would be possible to let the processed signal (amp + cab) on the left channel of the S/PDIF and the dry signal of the guitar on the right channel. So, no conversion at all. It could be an option : stereo effects or dry guitar.

    I already made this suggestion, it would be an excellent feature i love to see in the near future.

  • In this (German) video the same questions was asked and the answer was 'it's not planned - yet'.


    I am sure the priorities are more to fix bugs and add missing features - and that's good IMHO.

    (All trademarks are trademarks of their respective owners, which are in no way associated or affiliated with soundside.de)


    Great Profiles --> soundside.de

  • Christoph, could you consider this ? :


    As the signal from S/PDIF is stereo and we often prefer recording dry tracks (so, no stereo effects -> mono track), perhaps it would be possible to let the processed signal (amp + cab) on the left channel of the S/PDIF and the dry signal of the guitar on the right channel. So, no conversion at all. It could be an option : stereo effects or dry guitar.


    Nice idea. I will consider that.


    Christoph Kemper

  • USB audio is not planned


    Very disappointing. I cancelled my pre-order today. :thumbdown:


    I wish you would reconsider this - the Eleven Rack is a good model of DAW integration and I expected with the history of the Virus TI that you would be ahead of the curve in this regard.


  • Very disappointing. I cancelled my pre-order today. :thumbdown:


    I wish you would reconsider this - the Eleven Rack is a good model of DAW integration and I expected with the history of the Virus TI that you would be ahead of the curve in this regard.

    Fair enough. It sounds actually very encouraging to me the fact they won't be turning the KPA into a "can do it all" type of unit. That means Kemper will focus exclusively on profiling and refining algorhythms + effects and other cool revolutionary features. Besides I would consider good models of DAW integretation Apogee or RME rather than an 11 rack or other kind of devices "I'll do it all" type of thing. I think a dedicated soundcard will be a more reliable and better choice for DAW interface. Let a proper soundcard do the job and let the Kemper do their job. That's my opinion at least. If there is a recording feature via USB I would really like then actually would be cool to add USB direct recording (i.e. record to usb stick to capture those rare moments of inspiration). Not sure if Kemper can do that or are willing to do that though.
    Cheers now

  • Apogee is not a good example. OSX only in an era when even apple computers are dual boot, not to mention their continuing drive away from pro audio into iPad trinkets and stuff designed to be sold at apple stores first and foremost. And this is coming from an Apogee user.


    RME also don't make a good example as their units are increasingly bloating away from just being dedicated converters, the UFX for instance has not just inboard effects, but an inbuilt sampler!


    If you then factor in the cost, and the pain of SPDIF, especially if you have other SPDIF equipment so you need to daisy chain, and the fact that most guitarists, even the ones with Apogee or RME converters dont actually have SPDIF inputs (theyRe not on Babyface, Duet, MBox Mini etc) then it really does make more sense to allow normal guitarists who don't own a studio to be allowed to use USB in order to quickly and conveniently track their stuff with a digital signal path.

  • Apogee is not a good example. OSX only in an era when even apple computers are dual boot, not to mention their continuing drive away from pro audio into iPad trinkets and stuff designed to be sold at apple stores first and foremost. And this is coming from an Apogee user.


    RME also don't make a good example as their units are increasingly bloating away from just being dedicated converters, the UFX for instance has not just inboard effects, but an inbuilt sampler!


    If you then factor in the cost, and the pain of SPDIF, especially if you have other SPDIF equipment so you need to daisy chain, and the fact that most guitarists, even the ones with Apogee or RME converters dont actually have SPDIF inputs (theyRe not on Babyface, Duet, MBox Mini etc) then it really does make more sense to allow normal guitarists who don't own a studio to be allowed to use USB in order to quickly and conveniently track their stuff with a digital signal path.


    Thank you professor for enlightening my path.I disagree with every single thing you've written (and that's included the full stops you've used ). Also when you say "Apogee or RME converters dont actually have SPDIF inputs " you clearly show you don't know what you're talking about.
    And when you say "the UFX for instance has not just inboard effects, but an inbuilt sampler!" . Seriuosly I really I think you've got a talent ! Don't waste it in here!You're way ahead man :thumbup:

  • Thank you professor for enlightening my path.I disagree with every single thing you've written (and that's included the full stops you've used ). ...
    Seriuosly I really I think you've got a talent ! Don't waste it in here!You're way ahead man :thumbup:

    Sorry bros for interposing, but that just might be the most funny post ever written :D:D:D:D I mean, I know it's not meant to be funny - but you cannot imagine how hard I was laughing.... :D:D:D:D anyway, carry on... Just had to say this. :D
    Peace!


  • Thank you professor for enlightening my path.I disagree with every single thing you've written (and that's included the full stops you've used ). Also when you say "Apogee or RME converters dont actually have SPDIF inputs " you clearly show you don't know what you're talking about.
    And when you say "the UFX for instance has not just inboard effects, but an inbuilt sampler!" . Seriuosly I really I think you've got a talent ! Don't waste it in here!You're way ahead man :thumbup:


    OK, editing this down to less waffle and more meat.


    1) I have an Ensemble, it has both Coax and Optical S/PDIF
    2) Please don't paraphrase to purposefully misquote me, either that or reading comprehension 101 for you. Most guitarists I know use cheaper units that do not have S/PDIF, that's quite common even among the low end offerings from the big boys, in fact most frequently...
    3) ...Guitarists these days expect their multiFX to be able to record over USB and just use that. I'm having a hard time thinking of one outside of the Kemper that doesn't.
    4) And in fiscal terms you can't depend on studios to sell the Kemper. They're going out of business! The biggest slice of the pie is the hobby market, i.e. those guitarists. I have to question your business acumen based on your assertions and assumptions.
    5) The UFX ok, not technically a sampler, but DURec direct recording to an attached drive for retroactive takes which is a lovely feature even if some DAWs already support this ITB. RME's have for a long time had onboard FX. By your standards these are bloatware features, personally I think they're excellent additions.
    6) The Kemper is going to have to get USB drivers of some sort if you want even a basic librarian that doesn't involve constantly plugging and unplugging a usb thumbdrive between computer and KPA. I doubt that for someone who has a history of making USB audio with the Virus TI an ASIO drive and it's support is any worse than any other key feature that needs to be added.
    7) USB audio support has had no noticeable impact on AxeFX development progress, do you not agree? To me it sounds like you think Christoph isn't up to the job. At least that's the implication. That's pretty insulting.


    So, do you have a comment to make or are you just being obnoxious for the sake of it?

    Edited 7 times, last by Per ().

  • RME all have spdif i/o, they're just not always via coax. The Babyface uses dual use ADAT ports. You can have either spdif i/o or 8 ADAT i/o. All that's needed are a couple of dirt cheap cable converters from ADAT to coax.


    http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_babyface.php


    Can't fault it. My third RME. :thumbup:


    You're right. My bad. I do think that (outside of the pre's) the RME is a much better option than the Apogee, they really pack in the features, have great support and of course maintain a product that's viable on all platforms and isn't trying to just be a cool looking gimmick.