non-powered vs powered Kemper

    Hey Guys,




    Silly me.. sold my Kemper (#douche #doofus #givingitasecondchance #plsforgive!) and I look forward to going down that path again in the coming weeks..




    THE THING IS.. I’m uncertain if I should get the powered or the NON powered version.. Any ideas..? Pro’s and con’s? It’ll be the 3RU rack version, not the toaster BTW.




    At this stage, I do prefer running the Kemper (when I had it) through a valve power amp VHT 2/50/2 + 2x12 Mesa cab which was awesome, so I preferred non-FRFR to FRFR. HOWEVER, that said, Kemper does the FRFR thing better than the rest, so I’m happy to re-visit a decent FRFR solution..




    My other question is (this maybe applies to the guys out there who use their powered kemper to power a passive FRFR speaker or a normal cab).. How does this <--- idea work? Does it have enough thump? Can it keep up with other power amp setups? Is it loud enough? (I ask this because ‘600 solid state watts’ compared to 100 valve watts or even 50 valve watts is very different). Jeeze I hope that makes sense!!




    Any input is welcomed..




    Thanks guys ^^

    My 2 cents. I'm a relatively new user. Only 1 gig under my belt. I bought the powered becuase I got a good deal on it. HOwever, I had wanted a powered becuase.....why not? With the powered you have the option of using the kemper power OR using a line out signal and using a powered speaker if you want. If money is no option, go for the powered becuase of the options it gives you.


    For monitoring I'm running just a Yamaha SM15V wedge either in front or too the side of me. The kemper power is more than enough for this. I like the fact that I dont have to hook up an electrical cord and run it to the front of the stage. I also tested it at a buddies house with a full FRFR speaker and it sounded great with that.

    I've been a happy Kemper user for over a year, and the only thing I regret about it is I didn't get a powered version. It would be so great to be able to plop the Kemper on top of most any cab I had at the venue, plug it in, and go. The powered version is significantly more money than unpowered, more so than seems reasonable at first blush given how cheap power amps are these days, but under the hood the Kemper has one of the best Class D power amps you can get (an ICEpower unit), and their level of quality is expensive. So it is worth it in the end.


    IMHO if you are going to be gigging with the Kemper, and you will need appreciable stage volume from time to time, just spring for the powered version as you'll probably need it eventually.

    Quote from MKB

    I've been a happy Kemper user for over a year, and the only thing I regret about it is I didn't get a powered version. It would be so great to be able to plop the Kemper on top of most any cab I had at the venue, plug it in, and go. The powered version is significantly more money than unpowered, more so than seems reasonable at first blush given how cheap power amps are these days, but under the hood the Kemper has one of the best Class D power amps you can get (an ICEpower unit), and their level of quality is expensive. So it is worth it in the end.


    IMHO if you are going to be gigging with the Kemper, and you will need appreciable stage volume from time to time, just spring for the powered version as you'll probably need it eventually.

    ^^^^ This is the correct answer ^^^^ :thumbup:

    Well, there is one thing to be aware of --you'll still need a external Power Amp if you want to go stereo on stage.



    The internal power amp only has a mono output. It's one of the few gripes I have with the product.

    Quote from Morty

    Looks realy nice!! Maby I am replacing my DXR :)

    I think that is a great idea from Mission, however its not possible to be less than 20" square. It has a 12' driver so 12x12 = you guessed it. And that's the speaker alone without the cabinet. I would like to see the real dimensions of this product.

    Quote from wheelzr

    Well, there is one thing to be aware of --you'll still need a external Power Amp if you want to go stereo on stage.



    The internal power amp only has a mono output. It's one of the few gripes I have with the product.

    True, I've actually lost sleep over this flaw, lol. I ended up settling on a non-powered KPA rack version, and I use the monitor out to a Freyette Power Station to a recto 2x12 vertical slant cab with the cab sims off. Then I run the main outs to the FoH. I prefer the sound of the tube amp to a real cab vs. using a solid state stereo amp to my XiTone passive FRFR wedges. But at least I have the option to do whatever the situation calls for. The best setup I have heard was my mesa boogie 295 stereo power amp from the main out (cabs offs) to 2 - 1x12 recto cabs. But it kind of defeats the whole purpose, hahaha

    My normal rig is Powerhead into passive Matrix Q12. Sometimes, we are loading into a backline of 4x12 and I'll just turn off Cabs and plug right into the provided 4x12. To me its just easy and flexible. I might pickup one of the new Mission 2x12 cabs from Sweetwater, just to move some more stage air. But between IEMs and wedges, I will never have a problem hearing myself. 600watts can get super loud. Only way I'd advise against a Powerhead is if you already have powered cabs like Atomic, Friedman, DXR10 etc. and you never run into a backline.

    Quote from Weegie

    My normal rig is Powerhead into passive Matrix Q12. Sometimes, we are loading into a backline of 4x12 and I'll just turn off Cabs and plug right into the provided 4x12. To me its just easy and flexible. I might pickup one of the new Mission 2x12 cabs from Sweetwater, just to move some more stage air. But between IEMs and wedges, I will never have a problem hearing myself. 600watts can get super loud. Only way I'd advise against a Powerhead is if you already have powered cabs like Atomic, Friedman, DXR10 etc. and you never run into a backline.


    That's good to know.. Question though.. you mention it's easy and flexible.. 600 solid state watts.. how does that go with a normal (non FRFR) cab, be it a 2x12 or 4x12?? My solid state Matrix amps that I used to have could get loud, but couldn't really move the air, nor did they have a lot depth and soul in my opinion based on my experience. I'm going to be potentially running my powered Kemper into a Mesa 2x12 (120w), and I don't wanna blow the V30s with 600w worth of power from the Kemper.. make sense?!


    When I go back down the passive FRFR path again with an FR212 or something along those lines, I'm sure it'll be fine, but right now, I'm planning on using it with a real (non-FRFR) cab..


    Does it cut it maestro?!

    I went with the PowerHead because I got a smoking deal and figured if I ever got caught in a situation where I had to use a cab I had a power amp built in instead of having to pack one in a gig bag somewhere.


    I did a lot of research on this before purchasing and there is basically no price difference when you add together the cost of a non-powered KPA and a powered FRFR cab vs. a powered KPA and passive FRFR cab.


    That being said, I did purchase a Mission Engineering Gemini 1-P and it's fantastic. Feels just like an amp and has plenty of punch to spare. I still want to get a powered FRFR cab because in the few companies I've spoken to about it, none of them are fond of the Kemper's power amp. They find it very flat compared to their own power. Perhaps I'm not picky so it works just fine for me, but that seems to be the theme I'm finding. I actually don't disbelieve them since their whole business is about amplification and providing power and it seems more or less like Kemper offered the powered KPA because players with traditional cabs were begging for it.


    If money is no option, I'd still opt for the powered KPA just to have it, but we're all different.

    Quote from metalgodinwaiting

    I think that is a great idea from Mission, however its not possible to be less than 20" square. It has a 12' driver so 12x12 = you guessed it. And that's the speaker alone without the cabinet. I would like to see the real dimensions of this product.

    I saw it at NAMM and I'd say 20" square sounds about right.

    Quote from Georgy

    That's good to know.. Question though.. you mention it's easy and flexible.. 600 solid state watts.. how does that go with a normal (non FRFR) cab, be it a 2x12 or 4x12?? My solid state Matrix amps that I used to have could get loud, but couldn't really move the air, nor did they have a lot depth and soul in my opinion based on my experience. I'm going to be potentially running my powered Kemper into a Mesa 2x12 (120w), and I don't wanna blow the V30s with 600w worth of power from the Kemper.. make sense?!


    When I go back down the passive FRFR path again with an FR212 or something along those lines, I'm sure it'll be fine, but right now, I'm planning on using it with a real (non-FRFR) cab..


    Does it cut it maestro?!

    We did around 5 summer outdoor festivals last summer, I used the Q12 at all but the last. I ran a Splawn 4x12 with Creambacks at that one. The Q12 is rated around 260 watts RMS, and I never felt like I was pushing it at all, plenty of volume and could hear myself fine.

    Quote from MementoMori

    I still want to get a powered FRFR cab because in the few companies I've spoken to about it, none of them are fond of the Kemper's power amp. They find it very flat compared to their own power. Perhaps I'm not picky so it works just fine for me, but that seems to be the theme I'm finding. I actually don't disbelieve them since their whole business is about amplification and providing power and it seems more or less like Kemper offered the powered KPA because players with traditional cabs were begging for it.


    That is because most other digital "modeling" amps do not accurately or authentically duplicate the dynamics of a tube amp's power stage, and the impedance interactions between the power section and a connected guitar speaker. Most companies that offer solid-state power amplification, which are geared for guitar preamps, deliberately design their amplification to intentionally emulate the response of a tube power amp, and the "color" that they characteristically impart.


    This is already taken care of by the KPA in the profiling process, which clones not only the reference amp's preamp but also it's poweramp, including the dynamic interactions with the connected load (speaker). Therefore, Kemper specifically recommends using a transparent and flat power amp for their non-powered units. This is also why Kemper selected the IcePower Class D poweramp (powered KPA units) for it's clean, flat and transparent amplification.


    Cheers,
    John