#13 Buy a real tube amp

  • ok, this is a strange tip for a KPA forum ;)


    But see it like this:
    If you are used only to digital gear - yes, there are a lot of users who never ever before have owned a tube amp ......


    .. your eyes and mouth will be open when you play a great loud tube amp for the first time.



    For the others (used to great tube amps) - even when you own the KPA - get a tube amp - in case you don't own an tube amp anymore.


    There is a special feeling - sitting next to a great tube amp - the zero latency sound - the many nuances - the smell.


    Even when you use this real amp only as a reference - how close the Kemper can get to the real thing.


    Another reason is - you can profile this great tube amp - you'll learn a lot about the KPA when you start to profile an amp by yourself.


    And one more reason - support tube amp manufacturers - without then would we have no great (new) profiles.

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  • Well... If you are going to use a tube amp, you are really just back to tube amps. the whole idea here is to finally get away from that fragile expensive and heavy luggage. I have my boutique heads and can make the Kemper sound just like them. I think the tube amp has been explored to pretty much as far as it can go. This new tech is just at it's beginning.

  • Agreed.
    Tube amps are still a bit above digital gear, albeit the distance gets gets shorter and shorter (notably since the KPA came out :P )
    There is no need to take sides. One can enjoy both the authentic experience of tube amps as well as the stunning resemblance that the Kemper has to offer, combined with all the pragmatical advantages it brings.

  • I honestly cant catch the "distance" between a miced tube amp through any kind of studio/live-monitors and the KPA.


    But as @Armin said..there is nothing better for the Amp-in-the-Room-sound than a great sounding real tube amp and its fitting cab.


    This simple act of standing next to your beloved tube amp/cab with no mics,no IEMs,no headphones and even no FX just (as Armin said) "smelling" and "tasting" the whole thing is all about fun (and even more) and you can compare this to food and sex.As good and easy as "virtual" things and the tomato from the greenhouse may be in modern life just dont forget the forget the basics..or the basics will forget you.. ;)


    Other than this I would like to suggest one bitter truth:


    The "less" you have the more you will need to find a way to make things work.One tube amp,one channel,one guitar,one volume poti..and just your fingers..cant get more "rocknroll" than this.Just listen to all the albums which are the reason we play electric guitar.


    But for everything (and I mean everything) else..I use the Kemper. :whistling:

  • BAH.


    Whty support tube amp makers. there are millions of them out there. And really, none are breaking new ground in any way, so it is just small variations on the same themes.


    Amp, is just a tool, a part of the music making process. All I care about is, can my tool create as I need it to, It's that simple. All this stuff about smell, bah. If it walks, talks, sounds, quacks, etc. etc. like a duck, it's a duck.


    It's a tool. And as such, the KPA excels and is all that is needed for that.

  • It's all about "The Loud". Have you noticed how fucking loud Texas guitar players are?
    Eric Johnson used to rent Sound from a music store I worked at. He never got into the PA, I mixed around HIM damn it!
    His 60 cycle HUM was louder than most Blues Bands! When he opened up those clean twins or throttled the Marshall's you knew you could never have children. He knew what it took. Albert Collins played just as loud with a Tele and sterilized the whole crowd. 8)

  • Armin, do not read me wrong but I have had tube amps for 20 years and I cannot feel all this distance with kpa.
    I can tell you that first time I used my kpa during session with my band, drummer said: "it is ugly but it sounds!!!...and it sounds fantastic!!!"
    I have to say that after you learn to use (and I am not so skilled yet...) you have no longer to regret a tube amp...and wait to bring it in and out from a pub when you play live...2 kgs and no more to say "ops...excuse me...sorry" among people...


    Then of course it is your feeling and I respect but do not say that tube is always the best. It is too generic!

  • There are a lot of arguments against the use of tube amps in todays live and studio-situations when you can use a tool like the Kemper.I am already sold on the KPA for all my gigs and studio work.No problem to admit this.


    But I guess this is not the issue here.


    There are a thousand reasons to own a tube amp and a good cab which have nothing to do with what to use for live or studio work but only with sentimental stuff.Looking at my old tube amps and my old cab just makes me feel good.Not even playing them.I just come into the studio,see them and I am happy.And this very basic feel you have standing next to your tube amp/cab playing loud and proud with no further thoughts in mind.Then comes in the drummer playing some groove,screwing around on his kit from time to time,next come the bass player and f&%$ everything you just started to create with the drummer while you scream at him which key-notes to play and nobody hears anything because it is just to f&%$ing loud....classic..just plain wonderfull.Rocknroll.


    It has nothing to do with being ratonial/reasonable,thinking about micing,transport of this heavy stuff,adding fx to it etc..it is just this:Playing your tube amp/cab with your electric guitar.Tubes,metal,five knobs,wood,strings..Very simple.I do this now for some 30 years.Graang..it still takes my breath.. :love:


    Ofcourse every guitar player should own a tube amp.

  • Had tube amps for 40 years. Had the KPA for 4+
    Love the sound of my remaining tube amps when I just want to freak out by myself.
    But given the choice, I will never gig or rehearse with them again unless my KPA breaks.
    In fact I am more nervous gigging with a tube amp than I am with the KPA because I know what I'm going to get with my KPA in a variety of live situations.
    Not so much with ANY tube amp.

    Edited once, last by Gizmo ().

  • Great advice!


    Money is no object for me so it's not a problem dropping $3000+ on something that my Kemper has effectively made redundant.


    Add another $1000 to buy another 4x12 as well as I only currently own FRFR's.


    Guess I'm gonna be missing out on those special smells and feelings as I can't justify spending that kind of coin on something that I no longer need.

  • @SqWark


    I dont understand your sarcasm.With all due respect,but I know a lot of people all around the world who literally have nothing to eat but own a smartphone for a 1000$..and not only this..they will get the "next new one" which will come around soon after the "ex-new one"..how many guys do we know who have no money but spend all they have for a fancy car;Or an expensive vacation;


    While I agree that modern tools like the Kemper are just fine for making music all day long on stage and studio I am definitly one of those who would use use a modern bmw (I have a toyota)for driving around all day long and travelling but at sunday afternoon I would love to take out my "vintage Benz with the oldtimer-numberplate" for a ride with my lady..it just "feels good".. ;)


    As I said..I have no 1000$ smartphone nor a expensive BMW nor a vintage Benz..but I have tube amps..


    ps


    It is not 3000$.Just take a look at ebay or all these second hand sites.You may find incredible stuff includung "boutique" for below 1000$.

  • @Nikos


    I certainly had no malicious intent with my prior response and after playing tube amps for 30+ years I have a fairly good grasp of their pros and cons.


    I'm not too sure what point you're trying to make with your "smartphones for $1000" & "starving people around the world" references other than that people make bad money decisions all the time especially most poorer people.


    Don't get me wrong I do get the whole nostalgia angle that you guys seem caught up in but for me it's more about having the best tools for creating my music more so than some, "Remember back in the day when amps had real tubes..." type of grandpa stories to tell your grand kids.


    Regardless, you seem to get some enjoyment from them so more power to you.

  • Wow, that was a tasteless comment

    Far more tasteless to quote something out of context.


    Was a response to the comments:


    "I know a lot of people all around the world who literally have nothing to eat but own a smartphone for a 1000$"


    and


    "how many guys do we know who have no money but spend all they have for a fancy car;Or an expensive vacation"



    Which I summarized as 'poor people making bad money decisions' because they WERE two examples of poor people making bad money decisions!

  • @SqWark


    Reading my post above again it may be sure appear as you put it.Sorry for that.


    But what I actually meant was more like "everyone out there needs a little bit of luxury".And nothing else.
    People spend so much money for idiotic things (which I respect as long as it makes them happy) but for some reason spending money for making music,going to the theatre or the museum has become "nonsense" for most people who cant afford it anymore.I understand this but nevertheless I just have another opinion.


    For a musician (and this is just my opinion) this "little bit of luxury" could be something which gives us joy as musicians.But not only.Having today something like a modeler will help for most things we need in our daily acting as muscians but having an tube amp could be at least as important to understand what the "basics" are.


    So..IMO what I described in another post here in this thread is the way I learned music.A one-channel tube amp with a few knobs I sparely use(actually I have to "tweak" these knobs for 2 decades) and a electric guitar.All the nuances of dynamics,volume,overdrive I "tweaked" with just the volume poti and my fingers.Trying to learn all about to have a good vibrato,bending,dynamics,phrasing.To learn all these basics we need to be absolutely "naked and honest".No trick,no fx will give us a beautiful vibrato.Or will teach us how to express our feelings with a simple,amazing bending for which we love the old classic rock albums of Gilmour,Knopfler & co..which are still "the teachers" of all things.


    Just a tube amp and the guitar is the most "naked thing" you can have as a guitar player.This is the "source"..as I old as I will get I will always return to my tube amp,plug in my guitar and just practice again,again and again my vibrato,my bendings and my dynamics keeping it all as naked and honest as possible to make me a better player.I will not use anything else.No fx,no pedal,no "trick" which could deviate me from the "basic thing".The pure tube amp sound is "the trick" everyone is looking for to become a great player with a distinctive tone but only a few guys get this.


    Actually this is all what I wanted to say,greetings.

  • The generalization is what is tasteless.

  • The generalization is what is tasteless.

    OK! Feel free not to respond to any of my future posts. I think I have a Good idea of what you think and who you are now. I try not to waste my time on the overly sensitive and easily offended. So difficult nowdays as there are just so many of you.

  • Thank-you for this amazing post. I hear what youre saying and I relate.
    Like most people, my opinions change in relation to what's going on in regards to a particular topic and definitely my last few years with tube amps were more frustrating than fulfiling. Could never quite get what I was looking for tonewise and if I could come close most amps only did one or two things well. Always seemed like such a huge ordeal just getting two to three usable tones from the same amp. Add to that the majority of my guitar time is in my home studio where I could barely turn my amps up loud enough to get a decent tone or alternatively wait for the (extremely rare) times that my wife was out of the house as well as my neighbors not being home.
    Definitely a sub-optimal, if not uncommon,situation.
    I havent played live in a few years So it's been a while since Ive stood in front of a cranked tube amp and felt the floor vibrate. I do remember that feeling of course. As a guitarist it is one of life's great experiences. At studio volumes my kemper/dxr10 combo sounds better than i ever remember my amps sounding but admittedly I would have to play at live volumes to really be able to tell if there's a noticable difference (between the two). Just wrote the above to give some context for my opinions.

  • @SqWark


    The reasons for "giving up" the bulky tube amp/cabinet/fx-racks & pedalboards are ofcourse the reason for modelers.Ocourse I agree on this point.These tube-stuff can get very frustrating if you dont find "your sound" consisting of the "right amp" and ofcourse the "right cab".I am glad enough to claim that I found "my rigs" very soon (just after 7-8 years of playing and trying countless amps and cabs) so for me personally my tube-stuff,my rigs is the "source" I can relate on to clear my ears going back to what is really important to sound from time to time.


    Nevertheless untill now (with the KPA and maybe the AxeFX) all modelers were obvioulsly to much of a compromise.At least for the guys who play a lot live and earn some $ with making music.Anyway..


    All in all dear @SqWark we agree in all issues.Just one last thing..I like the fact that you are "very sensitive" about all issues of music (this says someone who is at least as "sensitive" as you) but you should know that there are some guys here in this blog who are "all the money" and which make this forum this very nice and familiar place.I would not count myself to this group but sure @Michael_dk is one of them.


    Regards,Nikos