#13 Buy a real tube amp

    Quote

    And, not sure what the problem is here.

    ?(


    Have you ever played a rectifer with a 2x10 or a 1x15 cab;
    Have you ever played a vox through a 4x12 cab;


    Honestly dear friend..how could this NOT be a problem;


    @Sharry



    Quote

    It's legion I faced disappearing technic gear in the last 60 years


    I think this argument is not valuable at at.I could name you a thousand issues from navigation to urgency-hospitals to military to whatever where the guys are being thought to forget about modern tech and to depend on ancient tools in the "case of cases" when everything else fails..now you will tell me that making music is not "emergency" but THIS would be indeed the start of an "academic discussion".

    Quote from Kosta

    but vinyl is back in fashion
    an pencil is still a valid tool , doesnt chrash , doesnt need electric power etc.


    also the KPA doesnt look as sexy as a marshall stack :D

    Vinyl isn't back as a majority though, is it. It's part nostalgia, part cork-sniffing.


    Please, PLEASE go write a 50 page term paper with a pencil, or calculate the return entry of a spacecraft YOU would travel in with a pencil and paper only. As to the electric power? FWIW, ALL a Kemper needs is power. Tube amp needs power, and factories still producing tubes for ever. So what?

    I have played a a Rectifier with a 2x10. Also a Rectoverb with it's own 2x12. So? I can get the same experience, tone, response with my Kemper, Matrix Amp and Atomic CLR passive cabs.


    Never did a Vox through a 4x12, but Marshalls, Riveras, Ampegs, Fenders, deLisles, Kustoms, Mesas, Blackhearts, Blackstars, some others. Again, I can get the same, et al, blah blah with my KPA, a Vox profile, and my 4x12, and damned close with the Matrix/CLR/KPA rig (tone yes, feel yes, close to same in room total experience).



    But, the response of ine above, if you will check was specifically responding to:


    "But this is not the reason I bought me the KPA.I want flexibility with the best possible result.Only an FRFR as monitor can give me that flexibility using all kinds of tube-profiles in just one performance.Also If I ever again carry around my bulky orange cab which its "limited" and "specialized" sound characteristics I would also bring in some of my tube amp which fits 100% to it.".


    For some reason, your not "LISTENING" to what I am saying. You may be hearing it, but not listening to it. Again, comments like above in italics, seem to say, well frankly, I'm not sure what your trying to say.


    Overall, from all your posts, seems to me, and this is just how it is coming across to me, is that your a slight bit of a tube amp bigot, and ultimately, are trying to say in a passive aggressive way, that they are better than the Kemper, or modelers out there.

    Quote from Nikos

    ?(



    I think this argument is not valuable at at.I could name you a thousand issues from navigation to urgency-hospitals to military to whatever where the guys are being thought to forget about modern tech and to depend on ancient tools in the "case of cases" when everything else fails..now you will tell me that making music is not "emergency" but THIS would be indeed the start of an "academic discussion".

    Not sure your point here either. There is absolutely no parallel between military personnel learning to ALSO use non tech techniques, and anything in this discussion. For their job, there is a possibility they will need to rely on that for life and death situations. Just not the case for music and miusicians. Sorry. IF anything then, if you felt this had any relevance, you would recommend people learn acoustic guitar. Sorry, but um, tube amps are not any more survivable to a civilization collapse than digital amps.


    Regardless, that wasn't the point above. The point is, technology gets replaced, all the time by newer, better iterations of the tech. Happens in all fields, all disciplines, across the board, and all the time. Simple fact.

    I dont know why you are so upset.Calm down buddy..


    I also believe that it is no good idea to call me (or any other of the millions guitar players including the best of the world) "tube amp bigots".Or all the other musicians of this world using old steinbergs,stradivaris or whatever instead of carbonfiber and glass or silicone..


    It is actually a really bad idea.


    Anyway..I do not like to discuss in this tone.I guess the best idea is to let this thread stay like this.Have a nice evening dear @cybermgk

    Quote from Nikos

    @Sharry




    I think this argument is not valuable at at.I could name you a thousand issues from navigation to urgency-hospitals to military to whatever where the guys are being thought to forget about modern tech and to depend on ancient tools in the "case of cases" when everything else fails..now you will tell me that making music is not "emergency" but THIS would be indeed the start of an "academic discussion".

    It was not an argument, it was an observation ;)
    And this one do not exclude others!


    BTW: If my Kemper fails I have another cheap modeller as safety belt with me. (Vox TonlabST)
    For my feeling the availability of the KPA is higher than any tube amp as long you use the public versions.


    I use the beta - no risc no fun. :) (But I am not a professional player)


    I do not fight against tube amp - I had some in past and loved it. (still I have one)
    I think it's everybodies own decision to use them or not.
    I just found the call to buy tube amps to help amp-manufactures a little bit strange. ;) (or it was a joke?)


    I spare my spine and have the best sound I ever had before. :!:
    I need only the KPA than two amps before with more weight each. (for E-guit and A-Guit)

    Quote from cybermgk

    sometimes newer techonology doesnt give "better" results, just make life easier


    KPA "replaced" the Line6 POD ( who claimed to be a perfect amp emulation ) , the KPA will be replaced by something else ( KPA II ? ).....


    there is room to improvement imho ( even in tube amps :rolleyes: )

    @Sharry
    Agree on all points.I dont know if it was a joke and even if not I think @Armin has a point.The KPA is the best "supplement" for every guitar player out there who has nice tube amps and wants them easy and handy in a box.


    This is how I see the profiler too (and not the axefx or even less the L6 stuff)..it is an absolute professional tool for live and studio BUT it needs tube amps and cabs for breakfast,lunch and dinner..

    First, I didn't CALL you a tube amp bigot, I said, your posts in this thread give me that impression.


    Additionally, I never said, nor implied that anyone that uses, or has a tube amp, is a tube amp bigot. YOU put those words in my mouth.


    I said "Overall, from all your posts, seems to me, and this is just how it is coming across to me, is that your a slight bit of a tube amp bigot, and ultimately, are trying to say in a passive aggressive way, that they are better than the Kemper, or modelers out there."


    A tube amp bigot would hold that ONLY a tube amp can sound good, do X, etc. It is more than liking a tube amp. I love tube amps (I just found that my Kemper, and also my Axe II provide me with everything I got from my tube amps, in a more consistent, and smaller volume using package). It is even more than preferring a tube amp. Again, it's the belief that only a tube amp can do/sound like/perform like X, and/or that Digital amps can never do/sound like/perform like a tube amp. It's not even a "bad" thing to be. In my opinion, perhaps misinformed, or overly sentimental in viewpoint",, but it isn't a denigration or pejorative. It is, what it is.


    See the difference?


    And, calling it like I see it. The whole premise of this thread you started is, and I paraphrase, "Every guitarist should buy a tube amp because only it can provide ____________" It's that __________ that has been nie on impossible to quantify what you mean, and pin you down to exactly what you mean. See above. Kind of fits that description, doesn't it.

    Quote from cybermgk

    The whole premise of this thread you started is, and I paraphrase, "Every guitarist should buy a tube amp because only it can provide ____________" It's that __________ that has been nie on impossible to quantify what you mean, and pin you down to exactly what you mean. See above. Kind of fits that description, doesn't it.

    Nikos didn't start the thread, Cyber. Just clarifying in case this belief has a bearing on why you're wondering where he's coming from.

    some like amps and some like modelers . whatever works . i can imagine though players like scott henderson , allen hinds , derek trucks , larry carlton and many others choose to get their tone and inspiration from tube amps. not too sure that tube amps are phasing out as some suggested.....i like the convienece of the kemper but for me tube amps are still the best interaction with my fingers and guitars...

    Quote from boblaz

    some like amps and some like modelers

    oh man!


    you wrote the bad word: "Modeler"
    Some of the guys here will tar and feather you before sunrise.


    Beside that - you absolutly right!


    Amp builders have there own thoughts abaut sound and creativity.
    Does the amp has just one or two knobs - how does it react on different guitars / pickups
    all that brings up creativity.


    E.g. the Goldfinger from Bogner ... the sound ist very well covered buy e.g. the profiles from soundside .... but the knobs on the real goldfinger are not there by accident.

    Tube amps will take a dive in the coming years, especially if China and other cheapo nations get hit with tax tariffs and such soon. Once the exploited cheapness is gone, prices will go up. It will be interesting to see what happens after that. As far as tone, I can make any tone happen. I have my Diezel, Engl, and Kemper, little practice fender, sometimes no amp at all, it's all the same. My guitar and fingers make it happen, the amps just make it loud. My Diezel is what, over 70 lbs! Tube gear is fragile and sensitive to outside influences. Pain in the arse to take around, whatever.. For the tiny specs of tone diff, it just is irrelevant. For new tone creation? You just need your ears, not a new amp circuit. After years of chasing tone like many, diff amps, tubes, gear, etc... My style and playing is always the same. in a live sitch, people listening will never know the diff between a Crate and Soldano. Just like guys with the Eventide star wars setup sound the same as the other guitarist with foot pedals. Personal perceived perception of tone makes a lot of guys spend way too much money and time on very little. Kemper is not perfect, but then neither are tube amps. Pros and cons show us the victor, nostalgia is temporary.

    Quote from Nikos

    http://www.musicradar.com/news…e-of-the-amp-stack-625262


    I gave the link with the last page/conclusion first because there is all the sauce..about the "peacefull co-existance" between the past and the future.


    It is a good article and a nice round table(CK is there too).

    nice article!
    To me, when your in a situation where you have the choice between the sound of a miced amp, or the KPA....no doubt in my mind i'd go for the KPA.


    Where i have the oppertunity to have my own soundsource, and my band also:
    Im confident the KPA is as good as a preamp as any tube one.
    Also im confident a guitar cab suits me better then a miced/simulated signal through frfr
    Im not sure yet wether a tube power amp suits me better then a ss, i think it will...under investigation:)

    Quote from Nemo13

    Well... If you are going to use a tube amp, you are really just back to tube amps. the whole idea here is to finally get away from that fragile expensive and heavy luggage. I have my boutique heads and can make the Kemper sound just like them. I think the tube amp has been explored to pretty much as far as it can go. This new tech is just at it's beginning.

    Well, I have 5 watt amps which cost more than Kemper, I can make Kemper sound pretty much identical to them. I'll not sell the amps. Two reasons: I like vinyl (nostalgia) and to capture the full spectrum of what any of these amps can do with various guitars I'd have to make anywhere between tens to hundreds profiles per amp, literally.


    If you play guitar, owning a tube amp is a must. Also, play your guitar loud enough to not to hear raw strings ringing. And do yourself a favour and don't use fucking heaphones, ever.. please :)

    With all due respect to Armin..


    The correct title of this thread should be "dont sell your tube amp..keep them and use them for profiling-training".. ^^


    After all the "hairsplitting"-threads about "how close" the KPA do sound to tube amps it is obvious that we are just at the beginning of an journey.Or to say it in a different way:


    BEFORE the Kemper there was a time when recording tube amps was done first only by pros with pro-gear in a pro-studio.And nobody "back then" did care about "how close" the recorded tube amp did sound to the "amp in the room"..all that did count was "how great" the result of the recorded tube amp was..


    TODAY with the Kemper everyone has become "an expert" having "an opinion" on "how close" xyz sounds to xyz..


    If anyone is interested he should go back to the first years of internet.And the discussions in many music/gear-blogs about people who claimed they could "hear the difference" between different batteries used in their "vintage stomp boxes"..you think I am kidding;


    Do the google..


    So..dont sell your tube amp you have since years.Use them to "train" your profiling-skills.Getting "closer & closer" to the "original" whatever this means for a microphone in front of a guitar cab..


    And one last thing..


    For those who will tell me now it is "not only about studio profiles but also about direct" I will answer with a question;How many legend records in rocknroll history have been made with "direct recording" using the "line-out" of an SLO100 or a vintage marshall/fender/vox(what line out btw..) etc;


    ;)

    I disagree. I think people who chase tone too hard simply are not satisfied with their playing. you don't need to keep old amps around to train anything, if you play well you can sound good through anything, something that has a pro touch on it and doesn't cause too much grief in the effort to get dialed in where you are playing is good enough. it's the guitar most should be finicky about, because it has to be comfortable and fit in your hands great to play great. Ifeel I was someplace and all that was there was an old Fender or Peavey amp, cool. If it was a boutique head, great. I would have a good time with both. the one thing you usually CAN'T get easily is flexibility in connections how you want to do something. This phenomenon is what caused many players in the early 80s to create Monster star wars racks because they couldn't find a way to properly place the one pedal or effect. Same with amps, same with special tubes,special electronic components, or any other magical unicorn one chose to chase. You never find it for long. It definitely is an addiction problem of some type I'm sure, haha... Most cure themselves occasionally by selling everything and swearing to play guitar-cord-amp, but then the sickness eventually returns and suddenly there is a floor full of crappie again. So play and enjoy.

    Edited once, last by Nemo13 ().

    Like 1
    Quote from Nemo13

    I think people who chase tone too hard simply are not satisfied with their playing

    Eddie Van Halen, the most notorious tone chaser, might disagree with that.