KPA Setup Advice needed - FRFR/Powered or not and rig setup

    Hi guys,


    so after playing a Kemper with a Friedman ASM-12 at a guitar store I was blown away and I am currently selling my amp and effects rack to switch to a KPA rig. The unpowered Kemper with that Friedman sounded so good, I had so much fun just playing and having hundreds of different sounds at my fingertips. But here comes the hard part - I tend to overthink buying guitar stuff and just couldn't walk away with that setup. I have been playing the guitar for 25 years, on stage for over 10 years and tried so many amps and setups. Nothing had it all, well...there was the tone, but I had an amp rack, an effects rack, a floorboard and and and. And before and after each show I found myself tweaking and reconfiguring my rig. No I hope the Kemper is the answer to all my problems. Just a simple KPA with a Kemper remote and a cabinet with sounds that blew me away. So I started to pick my brains. :wacko:


    But before ordering all the stuff at my dealer I find myself lurking around this forum trying to find the answers for all my questions that came up...So I know there have been several threads about some of those questions, I apologize in advance, but here we go...


    So I tried an unpowered Kemper with the Friedman ASM-12. Perfect! :love:
    This is what I had in mind. Use the Kemper and Friedman at our rehearsal space, use another monitor wedge in front of me for vocals and other band members. But well, here we go...


    1) Should I go with a powered or unpowered Kemper rack unit? I think I will go rack because it is easer to transport. I am also convinced that FRFR is better with the Kemper. And on stage it won't be a problem because I don't need a cab because 95 % of the time the sound engineer told me to turn down "that fu("$! loud amp" and I only heard my guitar through the monitor wedges. So anything I should consider besides that? Is it worth the extra bucks for the powered version "just in case"?


    2) The Friedman was connected via the Mains Out of the Kemper (Only XLR connection). But I heard one should use the Monitor Out for monitoring and use the MO for FOH. Well I don't plan to go stereo, is it possible to use both Mains Out XLRs for both the Friedman and the FOH? But then I can't control my stage volume, right? Anyone using his Friedman via a XLR to TLR cable via the Monitor Out? Some are complaining that method reduces the sound quality of the Friedman enormously. What is the best way to fix it?


    3) The Friedman gave me that Amp in the room feeling. Couldn't try it with a drummer. Is it loud enough to keep up with a drummer?


    4) Friedman then the way to go for me or is there something that you would rather choose? I loved the punch that ASM had. Maybe Matrix wedge? I like having a wedge, but not a must.


    5) Is it good to program the Mains Out with the Friedman for the FOH? How do you do it? Well I want to know what the FOH will get before I get to a show.


    6) Do you bring your FRFR cabs or wedges to shows to have YOUR sound with you on stage? Then the weight of the Friedman is something to consider. Normally the FOX monitor sound was the thing I was getting with my amps. Didn't hear my cabs on stage.



    So that is it for now, please I need your advice and help. Too much to think about =O

    It's all relative. I went with the powered KPA just to have it. In this way if I ever get stuck in a shitty venue where you can't go direct you can always use a cab (or bring one). The Kemper power gets pretty low marks from amp and speaker manufacturers that I've spoken with. Works for me, but I'm not the most picky person in the world, either.


    It sounds like you already want the unpowered and Friedman, so go for it. Some people here have found the Friedman a bit dark, but this is again completely relative. The Atomic CLR's get the highest marks on this forum. I personally like the Mission Engineering stuff because it's a coaxial design and reacts more like a true amp to my ears.


    I also spent a ridiculous amount of time researching everything before I made my investments and I now see to be true what I've read a hundred times: just do what works for you. If the Friedman and unpowered made you happy, there's no reason not to go that route.

    Yes I know it relative. But I am not stuck on the Friedman, it was indeed the very first FRFR cab that I tried. So nothing to compare here! It sounded alright and good but I don't know what I could get:-) And is it true that the Kemper power gets low marks? Never heard of that...
    Also read that GFR cabs may be an option, so I don't know and I can't test different cabs cause my dealer only has the Friedman. I would buy it I think but I don't know how to solve the connectivity issue with it.

    Quote from MementoMori

    It's all relative. I went with the powered KPA just to have it. In this way if I ever get stuck in a shitty venue where you can't go direct you can always use a cab (or bring one). The Kemper power gets pretty low marks from amp and speaker manufacturers that I've spoken with. Works for me, but I'm not the most picky person in the world, either.


    It sounds like you already want the unpowered and Friedman, so go for it. Some people here have found the Friedman a bit dark, but this is again completely relative. The Atomic CLR's get the highest marks on this forum. I personally like the Mission Engineering stuff because it's a coaxial design and reacts more like a true amp to my ears.


    I also spent a ridiculous amount of time researching everything before I made my investments and I now see to be true what I've read a hundred times: just do what works for you. If the Friedman and unpowered made you happy, there's no reason not to go that route.

    Hey, I have an atomic and love it to death, but i must admit, i am kind of intrigued by the mission engineering stuff. Which cab have you tried from them? It sucks that they dont sell them around me, and its kind of like i would have to pay to play it so i would love to hear any opinions since it seems they are sparse

    Quote from iR4lf2017

    Yes I know it relative. But I am not stuck on the Friedman, it was indeed the very first FRFR cab that I tried. So nothing to compare here! It sounded alright and good but I don't know what I could get:-) And is it true that the Kemper power gets low marks? Never heard of that...

    I see. The only thing to do is try them all. Recently somebody had the holy grail of shootouts with the Atomic CLR, Yamaha DXR10, Mission Engineering Gemini 1, and Matrix FR12. They concluded the CLR was the best, but this is again all relative. Unfortunately they didn't record any audio or video, which I would have loved to have seen. Seems like a wasted opportunity. That thread is here. I put together a post some time ago with most of my exhaustive research on the subject here.


    As for the Kemper's power, I got that directly from speaker manufacturers in the FRFR realm. Guys from Mission and Matrix offer their own powered solutions and found the Kemper's power disappointing. Kemper more offered it for the guitarists who didn't want to have a powered speaker or external power amp to make it a true head. Now, I have the PowerHead and it works just dandy for me, but I've never compared it side to side. The guys from Mission told me the reviewer of the Gemini for Premier Guitar had a powered and unpowered Kemper and they got the Gemini 1 (powered) and Gemini 1-P (passive, which I have), and everyone in the band thought the quality of sound wasn't even close. The next day they returned the passive Gemini.


    For me, I like having the powered head just in case, but I plan on getting a powered speaker, most likely from Matrix or Mission when finances permit.

    Quote from KrunKGringoeZ

    Hey, I have an atomic and love it to death, but i must admit, i am kind of intrigued by the mission engineering stuff. Which cab have you tried from them? It sucks that they dont sell them around me, and its kind of like i would have to pay to play it so i would love to hear any opinions since it seems they are sparse

    I have the Gemini 1-P with the PowerHead. I love it. I got mine direct from them, mainly because the passive versions of the Gemini aren't carried anywhere because they have no overhead. @ashtweth has a Gemini 2 and can't stop gushing about it. He even plans on getting another Kemper and another Gemini 2.

    I just wanted to thank @MementoMori for the detailed reviews and explanations.
    One more element for me that makes the Gemini's essential is the STEREO component,
    once you play at home in Stereo and compare it you wont go back.


    So ill make one request if you get any other active or passive speaker
    AT LEAST TRY A SECOND ONE FOR THE STEREO EFFECT.
    (the Gemini is a 2X12 Stereo speaker )


    Then you will see why i swear by it and insist.


    Ash

    Have a beer and don't sneer. -CJ. Two non powered Kempers -Two mission stereo FRFR Cabs - Ditto X4 -TC electronic Mimiq.

    Like 3

    The Gemini 2 is a (stereo) 2x12 FRFR. The Gemini 1 is a (mono) 1x12, just to clarify.


    I thought about the 2 but was looking for something lighter. I had a combo amp that weighed as much as the Gemini 2 and absolutely hated moving it around. If I'm not moving the 2 is a no brainer.

    @ashtweth
    Which version of the Gemini 2 do you have? I'm not sure that I need the bluetooth capabilities but the idea of a silent fan is appealing to me as I am mostly going to be using this in my studio. Trying to weigh those benefits up against the extra $400 out of pocket.


    Thanks for the help buddy!

    While it potentially may be useful to have a built-in poweramp I find its use very limited. When you hook up to a traditional cab with cab-simulation off all your sounds are drawn into the "realm" of that cabinet. It is fine if that is your primary rig and all your sounds are dialled in for a particular cabinet, but to primarily use FRFR and just hook up to random cabinets at different venues sounds like trouble to me. I would rather prefer a passive full-range speaker for use with a powered Kemper.


    My rig include a pair of Dynacord AXM 12A active monitors. Just one is fine at times. I can also use both for stereo, or stack them on the side (need angled jacks for that) as a mini-stack with the KPA on top. These speakers are IMHO close to the Atomic CLR wrt sound quality, cheaper (half the price of a CLR NEO),fairly light (15kg) and compact (coax design). With multiple inputs it can take a monitor-mix (without guitar) from FOH into one channel and blend to taste with the signal from the Kemper. I would have preferred balanced monitor outputs (monitor+directout) from the Kemper for to minimise noise, but I have not yet had problems with the unbalanced connections.

    Thanks guys for all your input! But the Mission Engineering Gemini is quite expensive...Well, I liked how the Friedman sounded, but know I am wondering how to fix that connectivity issue if its an issue:-) I would also hear from you regarding my other questions:-) Thanks again...So where are the Friedman users out there?

    Sorry, I'm not privy to the connectivity question you had, so I bypassed those.


    Depends which Gemini you are looking at. The passive Gemini's are quite affordable compared to other FRFR solutions.


    As for the Friedman, I've only encountered a few people who have tried it. I know of at least one that returned or sold it finding it too dark for their taste, and I know of at least one other who uses it and likes it, though I wouldn't remember who it could have been.


    This video should be of some help:


    External Content www.youtube.com
    Content embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.
    Through the activation of external content, you agree that personal data may be transferred to third party platforms. We have provided more information on this in our privacy policy.

    If your looking for an amp in the room feel, also try using the return of guitar cabs, switching your cab sim off.
    I tried several in the shop, cheap ass katana came out as the winner.


    Yesterday i got me the 100 version.
    @home it was great, clean and driven, very dynamic and responsive, also at high volumes.


    Also did a gig with it.
    Soundchecked without band...all great.
    First set running a hollowbody and clean tones...couldnt have wished for more.
    Second set running a solid body, the rig i switched to was turned out on the bright side in a full band, i probably should have compensated that in the master eq. It resulted in my driven tones sounding a bit flat and on the harsh side.


    Im not sure this was an eq thingy, or maybe the phenomona of solid states amps not doing well in a mix.


    Anyway, still think its worth to consider that amp.

    Quote from iR4lf2017

    Thanks guys for all your input! But the Mission Engineering Gemini is quite expensive...Well, I liked how the Friedman sounded, but know I am wondering how to fix that connectivity issue if its an issue:-) I would also hear from you regarding my other questions:-) Thanks again...So where are the Friedman users out there?

    I have both the Friedman ASM and Mission's Gemini II. I love both of them. The Friedman itself is not cheap. The Gemini is a bit more, but I feel it is worth it. The silent fan. The bluetooth. The stereo capabilities! The 2x12 speakers. Everyone has different opinions. But my pick would be the Gemini. Cheers

    Did you notice any difference in the tone? I know we often talk about FRFR not coloring the sound, but the truth is every speaker option somewhat colors the sound, otherwise they would all sound the same.


    What I also dig about the Gemini over a lot of other options is it looks and reacts like a guitar cab. The Kemper rests nicely on top, like on my setup. Can't accomplish that with a wedge. Maybe that's more of a vanity than a practical thing, but I know I'm not alone in that.

    Finally some one has discovered the Stereo Gemini !!
    My work is done.



    Ash

    Have a beer and don't sneer. -CJ. Two non powered Kempers -Two mission stereo FRFR Cabs - Ditto X4 -TC electronic Mimiq.

    I have the ASM-12 and it sound good. The issue I have with it is, it is "NOT" very loud when compared to a typical 50-100 Watt Tube Amp. There is no way I would even think about trying to play with a Drummer if all I had as a single ASM-12.


    It also clips very easily, making it next to impossible to play with the ASM cranked. My Suhr Badger 35, could easily drown the ASM-12 out. I even went through the whole process of shipping it back to Freidman for Dave to check out, they could not find anything wrong with it. The 500 watt power rating is very deceiving.


    Its fantastic to jam with in a Bedroom Volume, but heck, even my Presonus Spectre 8 studio monitors are louder than the ASM-12, and they are rated at 90 watts each.

    Quote from ScaryGroove

    I have both the Friedman ASM and Mission's Gemini II. I love both of them. The Friedman itself is not cheap. The Gemini is a bit more, but I feel it is worth it. The silent fan. The bluetooth. The stereo capabilities! The 2x12 speakers. Everyone has different opinions. But my pick would be the Gemini. Cheers

    How to you compare the volume output of the Gemni II vs the ASM-12?


    Does it do a good job of providing solid stereo imaging?