Kemper aint got the umph...

  • Hi all I recently went back to using my tube amps(mostly Laney)I play old school metal(Sabbath Maiden Priest etc)And Ive noticed something that the Kemper or any modeler Ive tried has not.Theres no pound in the chest,4x12 cab air moving experience when playing loud.It sounds lifeless,boxy and dull,No matter how the eq is set.I use a rock crusher on stage and push the real amps hard to achieve this and they sound incredible.Anyone have any suggestions on getting the kemper to sound the same?

  • ok great and what is your cab then ?

    My main cabs on stage are 2 laney Iommi signature 4x12's,I also have a Marshall 1960 JCM900 4x12,Ive tried my live rig with other cabs in the past,all 4x12,Peavy,ENGL,and an old Mesa and its always the same results.

  • Wow, 2 4x12 and still no umph ??


    The fryette is a tube power amp , no ? Don't use a tube amp with a kemper it will had too much colour and changes in the whole EQ balance.


    the rocktron looks solid state but definitely not neutral too , same problem.


    Did you ever try a powered Kemper on your 4x12 ? ( you'll have to use direct profiles then)

  • Hi Waraba,I do use a power amp with the kemper I have a Fryette 292 and a Rocktron Velocity 300.(not at the same time)Sorry I didnt mention that before.


    ok great and what is your cab then ?


    My main cabs on stage are 2 laney Iommi signature 4x12's,I also have a Marshall 1960 JCM900 4x12,Ive tried my live rig with other cabs in the past,all 4x12,Peavy,ENGL,and an old Mesa and its always the same results.


    Might also be pertinent to know what kind of profiles the OP uses, Studio, with cab off, DI, merged?

  • The Fryette 292 has a depth control,it does add some pump to the cabs but turn it up to high and it turns to muddy shit.And yes it is tubes.The Rocktron velo 300 is SS and also has a resonance control but really doesnt do very much IMO.Before going back to tube amps I started to profile just the preamps of my live rig,eliminating the power amp(of the profiled amps) out of the equation.It did sound better with the 292,not so much the vel 300.But the lack of boom or push has forced me back to real amps.Volume wise its not deafening on stage but it is enough to compete with a hard hitting drummer.

  • The Fryette 292 has a depth control,it does add some pump to the cabs but turn it up to high and it turns to muddy shit.And yes it is tubes.The Rocktron velo 300 is SS and also has a resonance control but really doesnt do very much IMO.Before going back to tube amps I started to profile just the preamps of my live rig,eliminating the power amp(of the profiled amps) out of the equation.It did sound better with the 292,not so much the vel 300.But the lack of boom or push has forced me back to real amps.Volume wise its not deafening on stage but it is enough to compete with a hard hitting drummer.

    Did you compare the profile of the preamps with the real tube preamps sending them directly to a DAW? You can check if there is something wrong with the low end of the profiles.

  • Funny, when the Captain and Chappers used Direct Profiles with cabs, they couldn't tell the difference.


    For them at least, and many others, thump wasn't missed or different to the extent that they could hear it. I wonder what else could be going on here?


    Obviously I too find myself pondering the amplification's effect on it.

  • LOL


    True that, Ant. Whenever I find myself criticising his playing (in my head - I daren't say it out 'loud 'cause it ain't purdy), I try to remind myself that he's obviously got a great love and appreciation for tube amps, and has no doubt listened closely to squillions of 'em.


    With him, it's more a case of his judgement, I think. Actually, there can be no doubt about this the minute he hits a string. :D

  • The Captain still plays better than 90% of the guys who try to shred technical stuff and sound like shit. I'll gladly take a guy who plays simply but can bend a note and use his ear over someone poorly trying to unload his poorly executed box of tricks to try and impress everyone with how fast he can play sans any kind of feel. It's pretty much what happens when you go to GIT at Musicians Institute. But I digress...

  • Playing back those sound samples on my monitors can't compare to a LOUD 4x12,not even in the same ball park.Its more of a feel thing than tone.I thought since the kemper is so spot on it should sound almost exactly the same as the real deal.Even when running the profiled preamp into the fx return of the original amp is not cuttin it. Lifeless,dull and boxy.Maybe im doing something wrong?I dont know.

    Edited once, last by joust ().

  • Even when running the profiled preamp into the fx return of the original amp is not cuttin it. Lifeless,dull and boxy.Maybe im doing something wrong,i dont know.

    sounds like something isn't quite right. this setup, levelled correctly should sound identical.
    this could be due to the fact that the fx loop does something to the sound (now the whole signal is running through it) or maybe the relative volumes of Profiler Output (how much signal arrives at the power amp) and amp master volume need to be set differently.
    Best comparison would be between the amp/cab and a powered Profiler using a Direct Amp Profile of said amp/cab combination. You'll need a DI box that can deal with speaker (!) level signals to make a Direct Amp Profile.

  • Have you tried A/B'ing your rigs in the scenario you aren't happy with ? Allowing you to make direct comparisons...


    I felt this way when I first took my Kemper PowerRack to a rehearsal and so setup an A/B/C rig at another rehearsal to do live switching during songs and see which rig(s) I preferred... All sounded great so the KPA won out due to weight/size/programming/flexibility/gear required etc.etc. - you name it!


    The following was my (frankly ridiculous) setup:


    A: KPA PowerRack to a MESA 212 (also tried it with my EHX .44 magnum to assess how that sounded)
    B: MESA Dual Rec ROAD KING to a Marshall 412
    C: PRS ARCHON 50 to another Marshall 412


    Switched live via a Lehle Dual SGOS.


    The valve amps were cranked as it is (no need for an attenuator to push the tubes as they were being put to work anyway!)


    The differences were marginally noticeable in volume/punch/beef/girth whatever you want to call it! (when all volume matched to each other and rest of the band...) and the Kemper was thru a 212 vs 412's !!!


    I guess the RK had a bit of an edge on the extra volume front if needed (but it is a beast!) and that extra was quite negligible and just curtailed at a point to where the advantages of the Kemper just outweigh the rest.