Kemper vs. Real Amp Test - Cameron CCV

    Quote from Dimi84

    Why is the thread riveting, if I may ask?

    I'm enjoying a number of aspects of it, Dimi.


    I love the Kemper and I know in my heart that your (collectively - you guys) pulling these issues apart can ultimately only have a positive effect on the development of the unit. I find this exciting.


    Then there's the roller-coaster ride where feeling progress has been made or breakthroughs discovered / shared, only to be followed by yet another, "Yes, but..." and another aspect of the conundrum is revealed and examined. I find this riveting.


    Maybe I'm an easy room. I'm a fool, for sure, and therefore stand to gain much by following the ups and downs of this. I love learning too, and when it comes to matters of amps and guitars, in the grand scheme of things, I know very-little; I have an intuitive understanding extrapolated from my experience as a bass player, engineer and whatnot, meaning that I may well come across as someone who knows what he's talking about when it comes to these things, but the reality is that I feel I know next to nothing. This thread and others like it therefore provide cutting-edge entertainment... or should I say, "infotainment", for lil' ol' me.


    So, as someone probably a whole lot more-important than I once said, er... carry on, and keep up the good work, mate. Let's hope you guys get to the bottom of all this / manage to establish reliable work-arounds, and also that the K Team™ is watching over it all with its competent and experienced gaze.

    Quote from Kosta

    maybe we raised the bar to high and a emulator / profiler just cant sound 100% like a real amp ? :rolleyes:


    in the end it´s just another tool

    I am not quite sure, at least when it comes to my congestion issue, as otherwise the kemper gets so damn close. If it was more off I'd probably be less caring about getting it totally spot on, perhaps :D

    You are articulate and respectful, cheerios

    Quote from Dimi84

    About "congestion" and labeling it as "trivial" earlier.. That is such a personal evaluative judgment. For many it is trivial. For me it's a big enough issue with the kemper and it's not just about how things "sound" but feel too.

    I think for those who focus a lot on feel, the congestion / compression issue may be more significant. In my case, the primary focus is on the most audible differences, so EQ discrepancies tend to stand out to me.

    Lots of comments about preamp vs power amp distortion and challenges capturing dynamics and gain characters. Would it be possible somehow to go deeper in the gain structuring separating phase inverter and powertube distortion (pre vs post phaseinverter master volume profiling test) and speaker breakup?


    If KPA struggles with power amp profiling, could this be helped by overdoing the poweramp distortion a bit when profilng? I recall in HAWP series the Mastodon Bill Kelliher setting profiles turned out having nice oomph which is not that common for many profiles.

    Quote from JuLai

    Lots of comments about preamp vs power amp distortion and challenges capturing dynamics and gain characters. Would it be possible somehow to go deeper in the gain structuring separating phase inverter and powertube distortion (pre vs post phaseinverter master volume profiling test) and speaker breakup?


    If KPA struggles with power amp profiling, could this be helped by overdoing the poweramp distortion a bit when profilng? I recall in HAWP series the Mastodon Bill Kelliher setting profiles turned out having nice oomph which is not that common for many profiles.

    Just to clarify, based on what the manual infers and what I was told, my understanding is the KPA can generally profile preamp OR power amp breakup.but when BOTH are present simultaneously there can potentially be issues capturing a proper profile.

    Quote from SonicExporer

    Just to clarify, based on what the manual infers and what I was told, my understanding is the KPA can generally profile preamp OR power amp breakup.but when BOTH are present simultaneously there can potentially be issues capturing a proper profile.

    To clarify, what has been stated is "significant" overdrive/distortion in both stages.

    Hi!


    Is this a mega "congestion" issue? Could be improved by refining? Unprofilable amp or setting? What do you think?


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    Quote from pacocito

    Hi!


    Is this a mega "congestion" issue? Could be improved by refining? Unprofilable amp or setting? What do you think?


    Paco, I am not sure what the issue is, here.


    After you performed the "post-profiling" refinement, at 03:45 timestamp...I literally cannot hear a difference between the KPA profile and the Reference amp. I listened to this with headphones, and my eyes closed, and there is no way I could discern which was which, when you were switching back and forth.


    I guess my "tone" ears just aren't that sensitive. ?(


    Maybe too many years of playing cranked tube amps?

    It sounds less open in the upper mid-range compared to the reference amp. There is also something happening that makes the attack on the kemper tone smoother. I'm using my Sennheiser HD600 headphones to monitor and have the video set to 1080p.


    Have you tried messing with the controls on the Kemper? It doesn't sound so off that it's completely unrecognisable. For example, you could try increasing the 'pick' option in the amplifier section to rectify the second issue that I noticed.


    FWIW, I have had massive issues when trying to profile my Mesa recto preamp and 2:100 poweramp rig in the past(basically a dual rectifier), to the extent where it was completely un-usable. Strange considering so many people have profiled the dual rec sound successfully, but there you go. Certainly there are some amps which can't be profiled due to the preamp-poweramp distortion characteristics mentioned above.

    Quote from pacocito

    wow! Really? The difference is so big in this video... Did you switch to 1080p?


    Yes, just re-listened with Sennheiser HD598s, at 1080p. I can hear minor (and understandable) differences in pick attack and strumming dynamics when switching between the KPA Profile and Reference amp. Otherwise, I really can't hear a discernible difference, much less "major congestion".


    Again, I fully acknowledge the possibility that my hearing perception may not be as sensitive or as acute as others.


    Cheers,
    John

    Quote from pacocito

    Hi!


    Is this a mega "congestion" issue? Could be improved by refining? Unprofilable amp or setting? What do you think?


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    Took a quick listen. Same stuff as usual imho. Gets close after some refining -- but then when play notes which reveal the congestion issue more it becomes very obvious.. I do not know about the amp being "unprofilable" because this has been quite common in most of my profiling sessions. It is also very understandable why such a difference would make an even bigger difference in feel.

    Edited once, last by Dimi84 ().

    Quote from Tritium

    Yes, just re-listened with Sennheiser HD598s, at 1080p. I can hear minor (and understandable) differences in pick attack and strumming dynamics when switching between the KPA Profile and Reference amp. Otherwise, I really can't hear a discernible difference, much less "major congestion".


    Again, I fully acknowledge the possibility that my hearing perception may not be as sensitive or as acute as others.


    Cheers,
    John

    4:20-29, kemper "congestion" issue. It is harder to hear with high notes (though still there) but if you pay attention to the lowest note here it becomes obvious.

    Quote from MCVA444

    It sounds less open in the upper mid-range compared to the reference amp. There is also something happening that makes the attack on the kemper tone smoother. I'm using my Sennheiser HD600 headphones to monitor and have the video set to 1080p.


    Have you tried messing with the controls on the Kemper? It doesn't sound so off that it's completely unrecognisable. For example, you could try increasing the 'pick' option in the amplifier section to rectify the second issue that I noticed.


    FWIW, I have had massive issues when trying to profile my Mesa recto preamp and 2:100 poweramp rig in the past(basically a dual rectifier), to the extent where it was completely un-usable. Strange considering so many people have profiled the dual rec sound successfully, but there you go. Certainly there are some amps which can't be profiled due to the preamp-poweramp distortion characteristics mentioned above.

    Thank you. I"ll try after increaaing the pick value.

    First real amp *another one this time* then kemper through the kemper A/B thingy.


    It's the same effect I get most of the time. It's not about high gain tones only either. I could make an even more vintage tone of this and congestion will still be there if I play in manner that reveals it.


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    I really wonder, how many have profiled their amps and not gotten this effect?


    Try to play some low notes. It's there on high ones, as well, and it bothers me quite a bit (like a tubescreamer on high values), but lower ones are usually more of a giveaway for me personally.


    I don't think I have ever profiled an amp that didn't do this on some level, sometimes more, others less, but always there... even with clean-ish tones.


    Cheerios

    Edited once, last by Dimi84 ().

    --- sorry, file was messed up, deleted ---


    Another test, trying to get closer to troubleshooting/getting a better profile.


    First the amp, then kemper. Amp at 4/10 on the volume.


    Then I go 10/10, pushing the power stage hard from 12 seconds in. Again then first real amp, then Kemper.


    Haven't even listened back to this, too busy, will do so later.


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    Edited once, last by Dimi84 ().


    This clip sounds exactly the same as many of my profiles. I have tried many tricks but that nasal (or phase or clarity) problem is there with more or less presence depending on the settings I'm trying to profile.


    I think I'm more sensitive to that issue now than 5 years ago, when I bought my KPA. I hope it can be sorted out because I want to use my KPA and bring my recording settings to rehearsals and gigs.

    Edited once, last by pacocito ().