Kemper vs. Real Amp Test - Cameron CCV

    Quote from SonicExporer

    I think the fact Sinmix is a commercial seller and yet still rightly critiques the KPA for it's tonal shortcomings speaks volumes to his integrity for tone, and also as a person.....

    Well I remember reading in one of his posts that he thinks that he's so good that "he could fool Kemper users by switching a cabinet using impulse responses and no body will know" so I went and downloaded his free profiles , I liked a few but they all didn't sound like real amps and more like he could possibly be using impulse responses based on what hinted at.


    His profiles sounded like studio produced guitar tones and less like amps, so maybe that's his thing and he still is unable to capture the amp because he tends to focus on cabinets and impulse responses and haven't mastered capturing the feel of the amps like many commercial and non commercial users who try to reproduce the amp rather than a "studio produced guitar tone".


    He's clearly doing a good job getting "studio tones" where some users base appreciate the finished sculpted studio guitar tone, but that is his specialty meanwhile there are countless other commercial and non commercial Kemper users have produced indistinguishable profiles from the real amps they captured.


    It's quite understandable that there will always be a small minority who will be unable to use a given machine in its intended specific way and who will not contact support to see how they can improve or better understand the machine while the majority of Kemper users are having the best times of their lives downloading or purchasing new amps profiles on regular basis that sound, feel and breath like tube amps more than any gadget in the market.


    Too bad this very small minority aren't able to join the biggest party in the history of tube amps to enjoy what the rest of us have been doing since day one of purchasing the KPA :saint:

    Quote from Dean_R

    Too bad this very small minority aren't able to join the biggest party in the history of tube amps to enjoy what the rest of us have been doing since day one of purchasing the KPA :saint:

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    And Yes some people copy paste cabs just to create another amp pack for sale, yes its easy to paste also some cab IR into DI profiles and yes no one recognize what was profiled but..... I'm a "dick" but not cheater. Thats why i post always images of my amps cabs mics from every profilling session. You can use this soft to compare profiles https://kpaduplicates.codeplex.com/


    And TBH better when you back to elevator :D life is much easier. Peace and Love!


    Stay Metal!

    Quote from Dean_R

    Too bad this very small minority aren't able to join the biggest party in the history of tube amps to enjoy what the rest of us have been doing since day one of purchasing the KPA

    But just because we think there are differences between KPA and real amp it doesn't mean we cannot enjoy the KPA.


    It's doesn't have to be an "all or nothing" situation, right?


    You can think there are differences and still think the KPA sounds great for many purposes.


    I don't think we need to join an "absolutist" side either way.

    Quote from Dean_R

    Well I remember reading in one of his posts that he thinks that he's so good that "he could fool Kemper users by switching a cabinet using impulse responses and no body will know" so I went and downloaded his free profiles , I liked a few but they all didn't sound like real amps and more like he could possibly be using impulse responses based on what hinted at.

    All my Ampsims and Cab IR - Happy now? So maybe time for simple "Sorry Man I was wrong"


    STay Metal!

    Loled too hard at last pic.


    And I spilled coffee on my keyboard reading/seeing these posts.


    Which costs 30 euros. I can PM you my email @sinmix. Compensation pls.


    .. Which would mean quite a few profiles done by someone who conducts tests himself and makes them public too.


    He could have easily been all like "Yes everything is perfect" and not receive half the hate he gets.


    Again, I can respect his attitude when it comes to stuff like this.

    Quote from Dimi84

    But just because we think there are differences between KPA and real amp it doesn't mean we cannot enjoy the KPA.
    It's doesn't have to be an "all or nothing" situation, right?


    You can think there are differences and still think the KPA sounds great for many purposes.


    I don't think we need to join an "absolutist" side either way.

    I agree with you 100%. Any piece of gear can be used in millions of ways. The point that I'm trying to make is that there are many users and commercial sellers who perfected getting amazing result to demonstrate the accuracy of the KPA. I also respect what you personally is trying to do because you're pointing things in the intention of getting them improved, but some other posters in this forum are clearly posting unfounded non-quantifiable words or statements "Kemper has congestion"

    Quote from sinmix

    All my Ampsims and Cab IR - Happy now? So maybe time for simple "Sorry Man I was wrong"
    STay Metal!

    So you're showing pictures of real amps but you admit that you're unable to get accurate profiles!!? You are not able to minimize the differences when you capture profiles and it's you who is saying this, it's not me who's saying it to be clear.


    Instead of posting pictures and videos why can't you answer my questions to further this discussion and get back to topic.


    Did you ever contact support to help you eliminate the differences so you can also produce profiles like the majority of Kemper users who are getting identical results?

    Quote from Dean_R

    So you're showing pictures of real amps but you admit that you're unable to get accurate profiles!!? You are not able to minimize the differences when you capture profiles and it's you who is saying this, it's not me who's saying it to be clear.

    Not to answer on Sinmix's behalf, but I don't think he believes you can get perfectly identical profiles to begin with. To the extend that it's possible to get close to real amps, he's there already.


    That's how I understand that myself.


    On my own part, I've contacted support long time ago and have been in contact. They today said they would forward tests to developers.

    Quote from sinmix


    And Yes some people copy paste cabs just to create another amp pack for sale, yes its easy to paste also some cab IR into DI profiles and yes no one recognize what was profiled but..... I'm a "dick" but not cheater. Thats why i post always images of my amps cabs mics from every profilling session. You can use this soft to compare profiles https://kpaduplicates.codeplex.com/


    And TBH better when you back to elevator :D life is much easier. Peace and Love!


    Stay Metal!

    So you make good metal profiles but you don't care to get close to the actual amp and that's not where you put the effort. My question is do you even try to get the profile very close to the amp and you find it difficult? Or do you simply try to get a a good produced metal tone only? Let's be honest

    Quote from Dean_R

    meanwhile there are countless other commercial and non commercial Kemper users have produced indistinguishable profiles from the real amps they captured.

    For some styles maybe but for those who know what to listen for you can hear the KPA "signature" in many profiles involving gain, and some not even involving much gain. I have yet to hear hardly any (IMO near zero) profiles that do the 80's cranked Marshall style correctly. Sure, lots of profiles and many claims but almost zero actually achieve it. The closest I've heard so far involved either EQ matching or taking 2 very different profiles and dual tracking them.


    Herd mentality doesn't make it so. EMPEROR'S NEW CLOTHES. You might want to read it.


    And as Dimi said, this isn't an absolute all or nothing. But there are absolutely issues that need resolving if the KPA is to properly compete with the sound of a real amp IMO.


    Sonic

    Quote from Dimi84

    Not to answer on Sinmix's behalf, but I don't think he believes you can get perfectly identical profiles to begin with. To the extend that it's possible to get close to real amps, he's there already.
    That's how I understand that myself.


    On my own part, I've contacted support long time ago and have been in contact. They today said they would forward tests to developers.

    I never got a reply yet from Support.

    I'm pretty sure Sinmix posted on many topics and showed the differences that he hears in his own profiles, and others have posted clips of the issues they experience or dislike. No one (that i know of) is here to bash the Kemper they want it to improve.


    I hear certain things, like the "congestion" sound as described here, as well as some slight unnatural sounds with low/mid gain profiles or even rolling back my volume knob on some types of amps. I also think after a while the distortion character seems to sound the same between all amps (not exactly of course but as though they are built from the same preset). The other thing is it tends to push some midrange frequencies that cause a "cocked wah" type of sound in a lot of profiles (free and commercial). I've listened to nearly every clip from every popular commercial vendor so I know what i'm listening for, i've bought many profiles and this is present in nearly every one to varying degrees. I think the biggest issues are Marshall sounds and power tube distortion that tends to exaggerate the "congestion" sound.


    That being said it blows away (for me) any other modeler i've used (haven't used an Axe FX)...but it is WAY more expensive too.

    Quote from chrismilne

    I never got a reply yet from Support.

    I didn't receive much of a meaningful response anyway when I tried to raise tone concerns and toget guidance on profile/refining technique.


    Quote from chrismilne

    I'm pretty sure Sinmix posted on many topics and showed the differences that he hears in his own profiles, and others have posted clips of the issues they experience or dislike. No one (that i know of) is here to bash the Kemper they want it to improve.


    I hear certain things, like the "congestion" sound as described here, as well as some slight unnatural sounds with low/mid gain profiles or even rolling back my volume knob on some types of amps. I also think after a while the distortion character seems to sound the same between all amps (not exactly of course but as though they are built from the same preset). The other thing is it tends to push some midrange frequencies that cause a "cocked wah" type of sound in a lot of profiles (free and commercial). I've listened to nearly every clip from every popular commercial vendor so I know what i'm listening for, i've bought many profiles and this is present in nearly every one to varying degrees. I think the biggest issues are Marshall sounds and power tube distortion that tends to exaggerate the "congestion" sound.


    That being said it blows away (for me) any other modeler i've used (haven't used an Axe FX)...but it is WAY more expensive too.


    Exactly, improvement is the hope.


    Fret buzz is something to add to the list of tone concerns, along with congestion and rasp (gain structure). Something about the way the KPA processes the signal is making it hyper sensitive, such as to fret buzz, in a way I'v never, ever heard before. It's quite overdone. Maybe that's a clue and related to the other tone concerns, hard to say.