New Kemper...Incorporate my Helix?

  • Sorry if this is a dumb question or if it's easy but I'm missing it...I'm fairly new to the whole genre of digital amps, etc. as until I got the Helix I was a tube amp user with a couple pedals in front!



    I have used a Helix for about 10 months and got my Kemper & Kemper Remote a couple weeks ago. I am using them both to record with - no playing live or anything like that currently. Now, for guitar I'm using the KPA 90% of the time it seems, but I do want to keep the Helix for a few reasons...the Helix has phantom power for mics, there are a few features that I prefer over the KPA, I own a James Tyler Variax guitar (also - anybody using a Variax & Kemper and have advice for the best way to use the two together?)



    I'm wondering if there is an easy (or great) way to incorporate both of them together? Currently, if I want to use the Helix, I have to switch the XLR outputs, guitar input cable, USB input (only because I prefer controlling the Helix via the editor, but leave the KPA plugged into the USB normally), expression pedal, etc. It's not horrible, but if there was a way to connect the two together so I could leave all the cabling in place and just utilize either the KPA or Helix as I desire it'd be great.



    At this moment in time, I only see myself using one or the other at any given time...there's probably a way to route one through the other (i.e. use Helix effects with KPA amps or someething like that) but to be honest, I'm proabbly not smart enough to get that scenario to work properly! :D



    To give an idea of my set up...it's fairly simple - I go from the guitar into either device, then L & R XLR outputs into the inputs on my Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 interface.



    I thought about getting some sort of stereo XLR A/B box, but haven't had much luck finding one the will A/B left & right XLR's (see a lot of mono boxes but I'd need a stereo XLR box I guess in order to keep using L & R XLR's). Something like this would probably work (found on ebay from China...around $70 but would take a month to get probably):
    [Blocked Image: http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/njcAAOSwa~BYRS8-/s-l1600.jpg]




    I could also simply get a different interface that has more than just the two XLR inputs that my 2i2 interface has, and that might be the easiest option but 1) I'm happy with the 2i2, and 2) don't really want to spend money on a new interface.



    So other than an A/B box or new interface...anyone have any ideas on using the two together?

  • I run my KPA in the Helix's loops, set up with a mono send block and stereo return block. This allows me to run Helix effects in front of and after the Kemper, as well as the KPA's effects when so desired. XLR outs are connected, obviously, to the Helix, and I use the Helix (via its Command Center) to control program and CC changes in the Kemper. The only (minor) issue I've encountered is with program changes, I have to send PC #2 from the Helix to call up #1on the KPA, and every number has to be offset by one. This is only a minor issue, though, and easy enough to work around.

  • Only problem with that is you'd need to keep both units powered-on at all times.


    anybody using a Variax & Kemper and have advice for the best way to use the two together?

    I was a huge VDI fan. Still am, but the most-practical method I've found is to buy the "cheap" stomp-style power-supply box. It uses a stereo (TRS) cable, so it sends its DC power to the Variax along one of the internal lines, whilst simultaneously returning the guitar's signal along another within the same cable, which is then fed out of either its XLR out (supposedly-ideal for acoustics for the desk feed in live situations), or the TS (not both), "normal-guitar" output (use this for the Kemper), selectable via the single toggling footswitch.


    It's not as ridiculously-quiet as VDI obviously, but it's damned close, and way, way quieter than you'd achieve from any conventional guitar. Last time I checked I think the "stomps" were $60 US. I bought several so I'd never need to fall back on battery power or hook up a POD for VDI if anything ever broke.


    That said, the units seem robust; not much could go wrong by the look of it. No digital electronics, I reckon; just a bunch of jacks and a switch.


    EDIT:
    If there's a direct out (DI-style) for the unprocessed guitar from the Helix, and you're happy to always have that unit on, then obviously staying with VDI and routing things this way would be a good option, IMHO.


    It's not horrible, but if there was a way to connect the two together so I could leave all the cabling in place and just utilize either the KPA or Helix as I desire it'd be great.

    You could use, say, a 2-in, 2-or-4-out MIDI interface. You'd programme two preset routings - one to direct your MIDI data to the Helix, and one to the Kemper.


    I haven't needed to buy one for years, so I'm not up with the configs available today, but in theory you'd only need a 1-in, 2-out unit - your MIDI goes into the input (duh), and the Helix and Kemper receive the signal from each of the MIDI outs respectively. You could even send the data to both units simultaneously; all MIDI interfaces should allow this.


    If you have several sources (MIDI controllers), you'd need a box with more inputs; the data streams would be merged within the unit.


    Welcome, MapleLeaf!

  • You can connect the Kemper to the helix via SPDIF with some small limitations.... it will sit in between Path 1 and Path 2. Change the Output of Path 1 to SPDIF and the Input of Path 2 to SPDIF as well.
    Benefits: Lower latency and better sound quailty - in the analog loop there would be 2 conversions going on, with the high quality convertes on the helix the difference would be negligible.

    MJT Strats / PRS Guitars / Many DIY Guitars -- Kemper Profiler Rack / Kemper Remote / InEar

  • Thanks guys!



    I'm actually thinking what I really want is just a quick, easy way to switch between the two...I have zero interest in controlling the KPA with the Helix, or using the Helix's effects with the KPA. So like when I want to use the KPA, I "flip a switch" and it's signal is going to my interface, then when I want to use the Helix I "flip the switch" and it's signal is going to my interface...that's basically all I'm wanting to do, so I think something like the XLR switcher I posted a picture of above is the direction I need to go in. Other than plugging the guitar into whichever one I want to use, I want the rest of the cabling already done so to speak. Until I upgrade my interface (which other than more inputs I don't really see a need to do right now), some sort of XLR switcher is probably the way to go.



    There are things that the Helix just does better than the KPA so I want to keep both of them. While I don't find the KPA hard to work with, the Helix is ridiculously easy to program/setup - and a big part of that is being able to use the editor - which we'll eventually get with the KPA (we better...blows my mind that this hasn't happened yet). I personally also prefer the Helix for bass, the way it does harmony parts / pitch effects is a lot better / easier, there's phantom power for mics, the reverbs are better, the floor controller is better, etc. Of course, this is all my opinion - there are surely people that would disagree. I initially thought that I'd either be swept away by the KPA, or find that I like the Helix way more...but I'm kinda sitting right at 50/50 now...so the KPA is paid for...the Helix is paid for...I'm planning on just keeping them both!



    My KPA came with one of the green Mission expressions pedals so I'm using that currently, but have been using an Ernie Ball Volume Jr. pedal as an expression pedal with the Helix and much prefer the feel of it over the Mission pedal, but I know the Mission was built specifically for the KPA so that's nice. In my laziness, I just haven't yet tried the Jr. pedal with the KPA, but thought I saw somewhere that due to it's pot inside, it wasn't ideal (or might not work at all) with the KPA? I'm thinking of adding a second expression pedal to the KPA/Remote setup and was just going to get another Mission (maybe the black one this time to differentiate the two!) but I'll have to try the Jr. with it...if it works I may get another one of those. (they're way cheaper too!)

  • My KPA came with one of the green Mission expressions pedals so I'm using that currently, but have been using an Ernie Ball Volume Jr. pedal as an expression pedal with the Helix and much prefer the feel of it over the Mission pedal, but I know the Mission was built specifically for the KPA so that's nice. In my laziness, I just haven't yet tried the Jr. pedal with the KPA, but thought I saw somewhere that due to it's pot inside, it wasn't ideal (or might not work at all) with the KPA? I'm thinking of adding a second expression pedal to the KPA/Remote setup and was just going to get another Mission (maybe the black one this time to differentiate the two!) but I'll have to try the Jr. with it...if it works I may get another one of those. (they're way cheaper too!)

    The Ernie Ball pots aren't ideal, as you get most of the movement in the last 25% as you head towards the toe position - in other words, they are not linear.


    But they do feel so good :P


    Must also say that they are not good quick heel to toe movements either... and of course, you haven't got the switch under the toe position either.

  • I couldn't believe that these aren't readily available... but... less than 2 minutes on google...


    Yeah - never said I couldn't find any...I found all those and more...just trying to figure out if that's they way I wanted to go, and I think it probably is! (Some of them are way too expensive for what they are though IMO). There are a ton of them that looked like they came close to doing what I wanted but fewer that will do 2 (or more) left/right IN and one left/right OUT. The Markertek one was the one I was leaning towards initially but I may go with the one I posted above just because I think the cables in the back and the switches on the front would be the best for my setup, and it's less expensive.


    Trying to decide in my head if I want to go that route, or just get a better interface that also has more inputs.



    The Ernie Ball pots aren't ideal, as you get most of the movement in the last 25% as you head towards the toe position - in other words, they are not linear.
    But they do feel so good :P


    Must also say that they are not good quick heel to toe movements either... and of course, you haven't got the switch under the toe position either.


    The EB Jr. pedal works fantastic as an expression pedal on the Helix...I use it a lot for wah and you get response for the entire travel of the pedal. I don't have a need for the toe switch so that doesn't matter. I'll have to try it on the KPA...it's probably not ideal for the KPA, so I may end up with another Mission.